Sunday, November 20, 2016

#Scriptchat Transcript: Going DIY vs. Going Hollywood - November 20, 2016

Zac Sanford @zacsanford led the discussion on whether it's best to go DIY or move to Hollywood to start your career. Enjoy! 

Read the transcript below or on the Storify site.

#Scriptchat Transcript: Going DIY vs. Going Hollywood - November 20, 2016

#Scriptchat Transcript: Going DIY vs. Going Hollywood - November 20, 2016

Zac Sanford @zacsanford led the discussion on whether it's best to go DIY or move to Hollywood to start your career. Enjoy!

  1. It's #scriptchat o'clock. Tonight's topic: Going DIY vs Going Hollywood
  2. Hello everyone. Just starting off the chat how I always do by asking how is everyone doing with their writing? #scriptchat
  3. With the rain and living in an old building, my wifi is wonky, so hopefully I don't get knocked offline. #scriptchat
  4. @zacsanford2 Suffering like crazy while I try to get adjusted to a new job that doesn't suit me #scriptchat
  5. My writing has been a little lackluster for the past two weeks. Election fallout and then some medical news. But I soldier on. #scriptchat
  6. @blueneumann New job with bad hours that leaves little time to write, or something else? #scriptchat
  7. @blueneumann @zacsanford2 The day II find a job that suits me is the day y'all say "I know that guy with the Emmy from #scriptchat
  8. And Thanksgiving is coming up, PERFECT time to be productive! #scriptchat
  9. You sometimes have to find yourself in the job - figure out what your "doorway into the story" is. #scriptchat
  10. @chasinglamely so sick of being the square peg in the round hole, of needing to do twice the effort to do what normies do. #scriptchat
  11. So with everyone talking about jobs getting in the way, tonight's topic should be a good one. #scriptchat
  12. @blueneumann that's my life every day. Overcoming it is the most satisfying thing I'll ever do. I just need to do it! #scriptchat
  13. The question to chat about is whether it is best to go DIY or move to Hollywood to start your career. #scriptchat
  14. I was GOING to do a little writing, but then decided to tune into this . . . #procrastination #scriptchat
  15. @chasinglamely Which way are you currently leaning? Making the move or staying put and making the movie? #scriptchat
  16. Tried to DIY in the Bay Area, then moved to Hollywood. A couple of weeks ago I saw my first produced script on big screen again #scriptchat
  17. @JLalliWriter Meh, some scary results. Pre-cancerous stuff. Can't have the rest removed for three months. Wake up call though. #scriptchat
  18. Now looking at doing that in reverse - making my own film in the Bay Area with old friends. #scriptchat
  19. @zacsanford2 I don't have a choice: I can't move to Hollywood, so I have to go indy. Just figuring out how. #scriptchat
  20. There's pros and cons, and advice that could be discussed for either of the paths. #scriptchat
  21. @chasinglamely Fair enough, and actually probably the same situation for many. Moving is NOT an option for a lot of peeps. #scriptchat
  22. @zacsanford2 A lot of people I know are in Hollywood AND doing it DYI--posting videos on Funny or Die, doing podcasts, shorts #scriptchat
  23. The one thing I wish I would have known before I moved to LA, doing DIY here is harder than almost everywhere else. #scriptchat
  24. Also I wish that I had more completed scripts, as my first two were not good enough to pass muster in this town. #scriptchat
  25. @zacsanford2 sadly, I don't qualify for a visa. I also live in a cinematic black hole. Interesting times. #scriptchat
  26. @skcomedy True, you can still do DIY in LA, but shooting on a random street is a lot harder than elsewhere. #scriptchat
  27. I think everyone should work on a short or a feature at some point. Even if it's not your own script. #scriptchat
  28. The nice thing about film, you can do it anywhere. Shorts, online videos/web series, vlogs. Get your voice seen & heard. #scriptchat
  29. A DIY screenplay is written to be a DIY screenplay - you work around what you have access to. #scriptchat
  30. @SarahAlexis4 The LA Film commission tries to crack down anyone shooting without a permit. We were busted once on WGB. #scriptchat
  31. Great advice. RT @wcmartell: A DIY screenplay is written to be a DIY screenplay - you work around what you have access to. #scriptchat
  32. @chasinglamely Have you dug around for the schools and seen if there is any film or theater department? #scriptchat
  33. @SarahAlexis4 Thankfully we weren't fined, but we had to end the shoot and steal a shot elsewhere to try and match. #scriptchat
  34. So who wants to actually make their own stuff? And what steps have you taken to move forward on that goal? #scriptchat
  35. @zacsanford2 One of the colleges has a film department, they can't even play nice with each other. Theatre is everywhere though #scriptchat
  36. First step is to make a list of all of the cool production value things you have access to: People, places, things. #scriptchat
  37. @zacsanford2 Trouble is, it's pretty hard to shoot anything good with no funding, equipment or crew. #scriptchat
  38. Actors, locations, props and vehicles. Then use that as your "menu" when writing. Did this on NINJA BUSTERS (first produced). #scriptchat
  39. @chasinglamely I'd reach out to teh one film department. Try to make connections. Look for any networkign events nearby. #scriptchat
  40. @SarahAlexis4 Crowdfunding for shorts/web is a dying art. It's a fulltime job to make your goal. #scriptchat
  41. Going to Sicily in June, if things work out right. Definitely going to try to shoot something there #scriptchat
  42. @SarahAlexis4 I'm seeing most put their own money forward if doing a short nowdays. And honestly I won't fund a flex campaign. #scriptchat
  43. @blueneumann Hav eyou already written something to shoot, or are you going to go rogue and shoot on the fly? #scriptchat
  44. I funded all of my shorts out of pocket. No real distribution in USA, and those were learning experiences. #scriptchat
  45. @zacsanford2 Not enough info yet to plan something. Would like to plan something, will def shoot fly either way. #scriptchat
  46. @chasinglamely Funding will be the hardest for most. A lot of young crew works for "exposure", which is a term I hate. #scriptchat
  47. @zacsanford2 I've tried; they apparently only work with students. I've never struggled for connections. #scriptchat
  48. @blueneumann Maybe do some pre-scouting through Google Street View if you know what area you'll be in. Could inspire you. #scriptchat
  49. I'm with @wcmartell Most my stuff has been funded out of my own pocket. Though a couple things were crowdfunded. #scriptchat
  50. @zacsanford2 That's the plan, just haven't had time to do that yet (I'm not the one planning the trip) #scriptchat
  51. @zacsanford2 sadly, even for "exposure" you need people who are willing. We've got nothing here. It's so sad. #scriptchat
  52. The reason I'm going against the crowd funding now days... There is no return on it. I'll help friends with some $$ though. #scriptchat
  53. @zacsanford2 It's wine country and I don't drink, so I'll have plenty of "dicking around with the camera" time #scriptchat
  54. @chasinglamely That's a bummer to hear. Have you looked into the making of Tangerine? Was shot on an iPhone & is phenomenal. #scriptchat
  55. Rethink your idea of crew: not a studio film, not a well funded indie film - more like shorts you shot yourself with a camcorder #scriptchat
  56. If you're going DIY, my two biggest suggestions. Find the best actors you can. And get GREAT sound. #scriptchat
  57. @SarahAlexis4 Vimeo is one of the better players. I would choose it over YT. Then use your own network to share. #scriptchat
  58. @zacsanford2 first I've heard of it. Wouldn't think a phone had the audio quality to be worthwhile. #scriptchat
  59. Facing the Odds: How to handle the simple fact--It’s REALLY hard to sell a spec script  http://ow.ly/sQcG306ml7v  #screenwriting #scriptchat
  60. @zacsanford2 I'd like to get an EOS 8 by then, but I might have to get by with an iPhone #scriptchat
  61. A friend from some prior projects curates short films in the NYC area. He's constantly showcasing local talent #scriptchat
  62. @chasinglamely I believe they used external audio devices. But even one person with a Zoom recorder & a boom would do. #scriptchat
  63. @wcmartell I did that when I was a kid. I have a camcorder, but I don't trust it on sound. #scriptchat
  64. There are *companies* in Los Angeles that make $10k feature films (as their business). Genre films. 6 day shoots. Possible. #scriptchat
  65. @chasinglamely They also had a set of lenses that you can attach to the iPhone. It looked beautiful on the big screen. #scriptchat
  66. @zacsanford2 @chasinglamely There's a really cool switch-around lens iPhone case they showed on Unbox Therapy. #scriptchat
  67. @SarahAlexis4 Also if you have extra money, make a game plan for a festival run. Aim big, but set your expectations. #scriptchat
  68. Your crew is: you on camera, sound guy, utility PA. Anyone else who volunteers, but keep it tight. #scriptchat
  69. So a lot are wanting to go the DIY route, which is awesome and amazing. #scriptchat
  70. More great advice from @wcmartell -- The smaller the crew the easier it is to sneak shots without permits, esp in LA. #scriptchat
  71. Crew people on a no budget film can flake, so find a couple of key people who share the dream. #scriptchat
  72. @blueneumann @zacsanford2 Anything similar for Samsung? I'm not buying another iPhone. Ever. Terrible tech. #scriptchat
  73. @SarahAlexis4 The hardest thing going DIY with WGB was finding actors to commit to a lengthy project. #scriptchat
  74. @SarahAlexis4 We got lucky with someone who owned a couple businesses that wanted footage to showcase as future locations. #scriptchat
  75. @chasinglamely Given that it was made by a third party developer, it's possible. #scriptchat
  76. I'm planning to do a DIY movie in San Fran - and pass it off as "We're just tourists" if police ask. Too old to outrun them, now #scriptchat
  77. Also remember, if you're just doing a short, the director is the one who gets most the recognition. It's a shame. #scriptchat
  78. If you're going no-budget or mico-budget, you have to limit locations and setups. #scriptchat
  79. The reason why I don't DIY more stuff is I'm a writer and producer. I don't want to ever direct again. Not since college. #scriptchat
  80. @SarahAlexis4 I'd aim more for a short that can be a proof of concept than a sizzle reel/trailer presentation. #scriptchat
  81. SHORT shooting schedules. You need to be prepared and work fast. Those $10k films are shot in 6 days. Think weekends. #scriptchat
  82. @chasinglamely Sorry, I don't know the Android world, but I'm always told they're a year or two ahead of apple on tech/specs. #scriptchat
  83. @zacsanford2 I get that/ I HATE directing, but I live in a town with no doors to knock on, so I gotta build some houses first. #scriptchat
  84. WRITE for schedule - so if you do 5 weekends, each weekend is a diff location and only that location. #scriptchat
  85. @SarahAlexis4 Ah, if you're only looking as a writer, I'd hire someone else to direct something. #scriptchat
  86. @zacsanford2 that's okay, I'll look into it, or a decent sound kit for my camcorder. #scriptchat
  87. @SarahAlexis4 I've seen people do sizzles for their scripts, but typically they're mood reels to help get someone to read. #scriptchat
  88. If you are going to crowdfund, step one is to assemble the crowd. Build that audience now. That takes time. #scriptchat
  89. @chasinglamely If you have no one else to direct, watch as many films as you can. Learn from the masters. And give it a shot. #scriptchat
  90. Film (direction) is a whole different language and you need to learn it before you try to speak it (make a film). #scriptchat
  91. @SarahAlexis4 It's very, very, very rare. On occasion a spec will go out with a little sizzle. But less than 1% of the time. #scriptchat
  92. So who here actually wants to jump feet first and possibly move to LA? #scriptchat
  93. Think in SHOTS. Also, have at least 3 *awesome shots* planned for your film. Things that get film peeps talking. #scriptchat
  94. @zacsanford2 I've directed before, I just despise it! It's soul-destroying. I swear most directors do extreme BDSM for breaks. #scriptchat
  95. @SarahAlexis4 I'll try to remember some in the next day or two and shoot you a message. #scriptchat
  96. Can I also plead with you to STORYBOARD your DIY films? #scriptchat
  97. And if you need to, get someone else to board them, someone who will think of your story visually #scriptchat
  98. @chasinglamely I've directed two shorts. I hated it both times and will always hand off my scripts to someone better. #scriptchat
  99. I storyboarded a microbudget film, almost every scene was one shot so it had to be the RIGHT show #scriptchat
  100. @zacsanford2 I'd love to jump headfirst, but sham marriages are so hard to find. #scriptchat
  101. So no one wants to move to LA? Our weather is beautiful and almost makes up for the outrageous rents & traffic. #scriptchat
  102. @zacsanford2 I'll settle for having a second home there. Meaning I'd be rich enough to have two homes, which I'm not #scriptchat
  103. @chasinglamely I wish I had a better answer on the Visa problem. Plus our country is in a weird spot right now anyways. :) #scriptchat
  104. @zacsanford2 You aren't the only country having trouble. Ours just became 1930s Germany. #scriptchat
  105. @SarahAlexis4 Rebel without a Crew is a great resource. Also listen to any commentaries on indie film DVDs you may have. #scriptchat
  106. @blueneumann I think if someone can't think in basic stick figure drawings and draw them, that's a serious problem. #scriptchat
  107. @chasinglamely As ours seems to also be heading that way. I'm scared to see what happens come January. #scriptchat
  108. @wcmartell Agreed, but a fresh pair of eyes really trained in thinking visually could bring the story to life in new ways #scriptchat
  109. @wcmartell @blueneumann James Gunn shared some of his GOTG storyboards that were mainly stick-ish figures. #scriptchat
  110. @zacsanford2 I'm hoping freedom of movement across the Atlantic... I'll tolerate the rise of the Fourth Reich! #scriptchat
  111. So for those thinking about moving here as a writer, I would recommend to have THREE solid samples within the same main genre. #scriptchat
  112. I think the key thing with DIY is to assume you will lose all your money and just concentrate on getting attention for yourself #scriptchat
  113. I forget who asked, but the Movie Crypt podcast has a lot of great guests that talk about doing the DIY thing to break in. #scriptchat
  114. Okay, another question for those who haven't chimed in: Who only wants to write and not do any other fields in movie making? #scriptchat
  115. Storyboards also helps to visual what is needed for the art and costume folks as well. #scriptchat
  116. DIY: What "stars" do you have access to for "confined cameo" roles? Sports star? Music star? Stand up comedy star? Names! #scriptchat
  117. So for those who don't want to direct, you need to start building your team, and that requires networking. #scriptchat
  118. I get it, a lot of us are writers first, and might not be the most social people, but it is a collaborative field. #scriptchat
  119. you'll lose all your money, so don't get investors.Pay for it yourself or kickstart it.Write it for $$ you can afford to lose #scriptchat
  120. @wcmartell I have a phone book full of those, weirdly. I just hate asking them for things if I don't have to. #scriptchat
  121. Find a director or producer first. One that likes your writing. One that sees your vision. And one that you also dig. #scriptchat
  122. Well, I *want* to just write - but not sure that's as easy as it once was (unless you are DIY novels). #scriptchat
  123. My day job is as a storyboard revisionist for animation, storyboards are absolutely essential imo #scriptchat
  124. Think of doing the DIY route to get your vision out there. Watching a short is easier for an exec to do over reading a script. #scriptchat
  125. @zacsanford2 And sites hungry for clicks will show off interesting shorts #scriptchat
  126. @wcmartell The DIY model is a lot easier for those who want to be a multi-hyphenate. In LA it's a little easier. #scriptchat
  127. @PABastien The kids programs you work on, are they more storyboard driven or do they have an actual script? #scriptchat
  128. I think my biggest fear is going DIY on a project and it doing well enough that I get traction as an auteur, not a writer. #scriptchat
  129. In 2017 I plan to produce two shorts I've written. Two different directors. But it's a way to get my voice out there. #scriptchat
  130. @chasinglamely The main thing about going DIY is getting notice. From there you could find other directors to take over. #scriptchat
  131. Though when you board a whole flick, you can't be that detailed (or be that accurate when filming) #scriptchat
  132. Not sure how worthwhile it is to be a DIY movie screenwriter. If you're not directing it may be worthless(but fun?) careerwise. #scriptchat
  133. @chasinglamely I'm pretty sure, given the odds, that's a good place to be in terms of your writing and not a problem #scriptchat
  134. @Jamie_Nash Simon Barrett is a great example that wrote some amazing scripts that found some amazing genre directors. #scriptchat
  135. @Jamie_Nash Actually, it's the opposite. As a writer, building your credits raises your credibility... #scriptchat
  136. @Leytonrocks depends on your perspective. Most writers want to hyphenate, I'm trying to avoid it! #scriptchat
  137. @PABastien Gotcha. I know a lot of scribes who want to spec a show, but can't find samples because they're only boarded. #scriptchat
  138. If you're looking to make money...you can probably make more with a DIY novel . Meaning...you might make $3K instead of $0K #scriptchat
  139. .@Jamie_Nash Makes a great point. Your first feature may be a loss leader, but it could be what you need to launch your career. #scriptchat
  140. I don't think most writers want to hyphenate - two different personality types and skill sets, not much cross over. But *need*? #scriptchat
  141. @zacsanford2 I can't talk about the scripts that much because NDAs, but the ones I work with are written like any other script #scriptchat
  142. Mark Duplass gave a great keynote speech on going the DIY route (worth the hour of your time):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZeWOAliA6Y  #scriptchat
  143. Always think of who will pay $$$ to see this film, or chances are no one will. What's the genre? What's the juice? #scriptchat
  144. @Leytonrocks If there's one thing I've learned... it's that there is such a thing as bad heat. #scriptchat
  145. @SarahAlexis4 Cons of DIY: You're still outside of LA where most of the business happens. You're still an outsider. #scriptchat
  146. @SarahAlexis4 Cons of LA: So many people here are trying to compete with you. Harder to DIY shoot. #scriptchat
  147. Weird thing about AFM for the past couple years is number of distribs specializing in "backyard movies". #scriptchat
  148. @SarahAlexis4 Pros of DIY: You don't have to move. It's probably cheaper. Another Con: Talent might not be top-notch. #scriptchat
  149. @SarahAlexis4 Pros of LA: The business is here. Decisions are made here. Easier access to crew/talent. #scriptchat
  150. @byChrisPhillips DIY Directors get invited to the festival panels.Writers don't get their names in the programs or free passes.#scriptchat
  151. @wcmartell Do you think the "backyard movie" trend is because they can acquire the library cheaper. #scriptchat
  152. No money means more creativity and skill are required. You need to write "actor proof dialogue". Also need story to carry. #scriptchat
  153. @zacsanford2 @SarahAlexis4 And, The more your face is seen, the greater opportunities become… #scriptchat
  154. @SarahAlexis4 The web has opened the world of possibility. People have been signed from YT, blogs, Insta, novels, plays, etc. #scriptchat
  155. @JLalliWriter You can be known for the thing you want (good) or the things you don't (bad) - bad heat isn't beneficial. #scriptchat
  156. When I produced my webseries we shot an hour and forty minutes of content for $5.5k and it launched our director's career. #scriptchat
  157. @JLalliWriter for example, I've had a lot of bad heat. It's made getting anywhere much, much harder. #scriptchat
  158. The middle has fallen out of the biz - no budget films are the new cheap entertainment. Plus - so many people doing it. #scriptchat
  159. @SarahAlexis4 I'll shoot you a PM later regarding things I've been dealing with in therapy regarding my own writing. :) #scriptchat
  160. @zacsanford2 Good point. Find someone who will keep hiring you is a good reason to do indie. Become a resource #scriptchat
  161. @zacsanford2 @SarahAlexis4 Issa Rae created a template for success from YouTube. HBO has made her internationally famous #scriptchat
  162. And while I mentioned audio is really important, also try to get the best actors you can if you go DIY. #scriptchat
  163. @zacsanford2 @SarahAlexis4 Issa Rae created a template for success from YouTube. HBO has made her internationally famous #scriptchat
  164. So many movies that could have been great were muddled by poor actors. #scriptchat
  165. @wcmartell thing is, if you can monetize it, it's a great starting point. #scriptchat
  166. Another example of DIY to success is with the series High Maintenance. From web, to Vimeo to HBO. #scriptchat
  167. That $1.2m Lifetime movie is now made for $350k. So those $350k movies are now made for $10-$35k. #scriptchat
  168. If you really want to break in and you post your stuff to YT, turn off the ads, otherwise execs might click to the next thing. #scriptchat
  169. I don't mind the ad prerolls as I think creators should get paid for their efforts, but I seem to be an outlier with that. #scriptchat
  170. Damned weatherman said it wouldn't rain hard until *after* 6pm... #scriptchat
  171. And don't think the only way to break in is with scripted content. Vlogs/blogs, books, graphic novels. So many DIY routes. #scriptchat
  172. But moving to LA, have as many scripts as you can before you move here. Nothing worse than getting here with one script. #scriptchat
  173. Okay, this went by quick. Other questions of DIY vs. Hollywood? #scriptchat
  174. @wcmartell The model I'm constantly pitched -- 100-200K + 100-200K for talent. #scriptchat
  175. Going back to animation, while you might have partner with a studio, animation is a viable subject nowadays #scriptchat
  176. If you don't want to direct - find a director to partner with. Love the Mickle & Damici movies. #scriptchat
  177. @zacsanford2 If you had to choose... better to DIY a short, a feature or a webseries? #scriptchat
  178. You can find Pendleton Ward's Pitch Package for Adventure Time easily online. #scriptchat
  179. @chasinglamely If you're doing most of it yourself, DIY a short that could be used as a calling card for a feature. #scriptchat
  180. @zacsanford2 Move to LA with a stack of good screenplays, and maybe some heat on one of them. I didn't move til I sold something #scriptchat
  181. Not all pitches require artwork. Just a detailed understanding of world character, and story. Also Themes #scriptchat
  182. @wcmartell I moved with only one... but I'm glad I did just that as I hadn't figured out what works until I read A LOT. #scriptchat
  183. If you can't afford a band, you need to be a one man band - and that takes more talent and energy and hard work. #scriptchat
  184. @chasinglamely A short with a beginning, middle and end. A condensed version of the feature. #scriptchat
  185. @wcmartell and at least now the web is a great resource of scripts for people to read and see how they truly work. #scriptchat
  186. @chasinglamely Ricky Bates Jr. made a short in college for Excision. Used that as a proof of concept to make the feature. #scriptchat
  187. @zacsanford2 @wcmartell I'd already had a produced script (NINJA BUSTERS) which no one cared about. I'd had real $ options, too. #scriptchat
  188. Also don't be afraid to get your stuff out there. Don't be afraid of rejection, as it's going to happen. #scriptchat
  189. Because if no one reads or sees your stuff, you're just writing within a vacuum. #scriptchat
  190. Whole question was: could I quit good $ day job and survive in high rent Los Angeles? When answer was yes, I moved. #scriptchat
  191. @zacsanford2 This is a term I hear a lot but never understood. What do you use a 'proof of concept' for? Proving it to whom? #scriptchat
  192. @wcmartell I sold a house with some decent cash in my pocket, so I was lucky I could make the leap before I was ready. #scriptchat
  193. @chasinglamely Proving to investors, producers, actors, etc. Check out my Viewfinder link I posted. #scriptchat
  194. @chasinglamely Some of those directors/writers were unknown or just out of school. Their shorts made an impression. #scriptchat
  195. @zacsanford2 Get scripts out there, because a great screenplay will open doors for you. If it didn't open doors? Write another. #scriptchat
  196. I DIYed a short, worked on short with director, got into room with producer, got job. Incremental steps. (Obv work on craft 1st) #scriptchat
  197. We made teh series. We're now developing a feature to continue the story & have some $ interest. And director works A LOT! #scriptchat
  198. Overall, it is also a numbers game. The more content you produce, the higher chance you have to be noticed. #scriptchat
  199. I hate to bounce so soon, but I have to get to the movies to see Arrival. #scriptchat
  200. If you have any further questions, you can always tweet me @zacsanford as I only check this account during chats. #scriptchat
  201. Thanks to everyone for stopping by. Was a great, fun and way TOO quick chat. #scriptchat
  202. The Mentorship requires being in LA though, right? RT @dwacon: Getting into the WGA Mentorship was a great start. #scriptchat
  203. @dwacon Ah, that makes sense. Glad it's been a help for you and hopefully opening up some doors. Glad you made the move. #scriptchat
  204. peace out all. To my fellow Americans, have a wonderful Thanksgiving. #scriptchat
  205. No #scriptchat next Sunday - Happy Thanksgiving! Join us December 4th for a conversation with @WriterDuet!

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