TOPIC: #scriptchat Story vs Plot HOMEWORK http://bit.ly/aKiPZj by @DreamsGrafter & http://bit.ly/2Ptpn5 by @HayleyMckenzie1
Plot versus Story is an enormous obstacle for some writers. We had great discussions that even brought up ideas for future chats, such as a night discussing theme. You never know what will happen when screenwriters gather to talk… sort of like not knowing where your own story will lead you once your characters start to evolve. The plot is scriptchat… find out what our story is in the transcript! @jeannevb
EURO moderator: Mina Zaher, @DreamsGrafter
USA moderator: Jeanne Veillette Bowerman @jeannevb
European chat:
7:00 pm DreamsGrafter: #SCRIPTCHAT O'CLOCK: What's the difference between plot and story?
7:00 pm Jonathan_Peace: ..... and here we are! #scriptchat
7:00 pm DreamsGrafter: ?The king died and then the queen died? is a story.? But ??The king died, and then the queen died of grief? is a plot. #scriptchat
7:00 pm carter_andrewj: Good evening all at #scriptchat #scriptchat
7:00 pm davidpbaker: RT @DreamsGrafter: #SCRIPTCHAT O'CLOCK: What's the difference between plot and story?
7:01 pm robinkelly1: (1/6) Plot is: the king died and a few weeks later the queen died. #scriptchat
7:01 pm carter_andrewj: ...oh yeah, don't need to use the hashtags on tweetchat. Sorry guys. #scriptchat
7:01 pm DreamsGrafter: That quote is from EM Forster and is used continuosly to describe the difference between plot and story. #scriptchat
7:01 pm robinkelly1: (2/6) Story is: the king died and a few weeks later the queen died of a broken heart. #scriptchat
7:02 pm DreamsGrafter: @carter_andrewj Hi Andrew! #scriptchat
7:02 pm Jonathan_Peace: (1/2) Plot: to mark a course. Therefore plot is the clinical technical what & when of storytelling #scriptchat
7:02 pm robinkelly1: (3/6) Plot is what happens but story is why it happens and what it means to the people involved #scriptchat
7:03 pm DreamsGrafter: This quote is used to demonstrate that plot = causality. #scriptchat
7:03 pm thewritertype: @DreamsGrafter I thought it was the other way around #scriptchat. Or is that only in the southern hemisphere?
7:03 pm carter_andrewj: @DreamsGrafter Really? I've always thought of them the other way round. Plot = what. Story = why. #scriptchat
7:03 pm Jonathan_Peace: (2/2) Story: a chain of events told in prose. therefore story is the emotional why & how of what happens. #scriptchat
7:03 pm lizziside: Story is what you remember of a film years later, plot is what makes it memorable #scriptchat
7:04 pm robinkelly1: (4/6) Story means having character-driven plots not plot-driven characters. #scriptchat
7:04 pm carter_andrewj: Or, to put it another way - Plot tells you what happens next. Story tells you why. #scriptchat
7:04 pm dizzydentfilms: Plot is what happens-events. Story is how the character deals with those events and how they affect her arc. #scriptchat
7:04 pm DreamsGrafter: @carter_andrewj @thewritertype I doubled check earlier today and found articles online saying it was that way round. #scriptchat
7:05 pm robinkelly1: (5/6) Simple stories & complex characters not complex stories & simple characters. #scriptchat
7:05 pm DreamsGrafter: @carter_andrewj @thewritertype Like this article: http://cinemoose.com/plot-vs-story/ #scriptchat
7:05 pm carter_andrewj: A Plot is a series of situations. A Story is what happens when you put a character into those situations. #scriptchat
7:06 pm lizziside: Story is the frame which becomes visible through a series of events causally connected into a whole #scriptchat
7:06 pm robinkelly1: (6/6) 1, 2, 3 are taken from this lecture by Nicola Schindler, TV prodco boss: http://bit.ly/OnceUponATime #scriptchat
7:07 pm DreamsGrafter: I find story so difficult to define bc it's so abstract. It's more than the why. It's about the heart of what is being told. #scriptchat
7:07 pm thewritertype: It's @Jonathan_Peace Right, it's about the emotional impact. Story is the experience, plot is the mechanics. #scriptchat
7:07 pm DreamsGrafter: RT @robinkelly1: (6/6) 1, 2, 3 are taken from this lecture by Nicola Schindler, TV prodco boss: http://bit.ly/OnceUponATime #scriptchat
7:07 pm lizziside: what's born first in the writer's mind? story or plot? #scriptchat
7:07 pm carter_andrewj: @DreamsGrafter @thewritetype We're really just discussing semantics there, though. #scriptchat
7:08 pm lizziside: RT @thewritertype: Its @Jonathan_Peace Right, its about the emotional impact. Story is the experience, plot is the mechanics. #scriptchat
7:08 pm DreamsGrafter: Great question. RT @lizziside: what's born first in the writer's mind? story or plot? #scriptchat
7:08 pm DreamsGrafter: @lizziside Since studying screenwriting, plot. Now, I'm going back to prose to find story before thinking of plot. #scriptchat
7:09 pm twatterer: STORY is chronological facts, PLOT is the facts presented in specific order: aliens invade earth = 100 different films #scriptchat
7:09 pm Trigonis: Well-said! RT @thewritertype @Jonathan_Peace It's about the emotional impact. Story is the experience, plot is the mechanics. #scriptchat
7:09 pm dizzydentfilms: @carter_andrewj No, understanding the diff is critical to writing a good screenplay. #scriptchat
7:10 pm carter_andrewj: @lizziside Cld be something of a chicken/egg question. Concept 1st, but both story and plot can evolve from there independently. #scriptchat
7:10 pm DreamsGrafter: @carter_andrewj As a writer, do you plot your story out first to find the story? Or the other way round. #scriptchat
7:10 pm LisaFromNYC: "Martin Scorsese on Story vs. Plot" bit.ly/9uUQV4 #scriptchat
7:10 pm Jonathan_Peace: back. Every week my dongle plays up. *you are NOT a memory stick!!* #scriptchat
7:10 pm 2weddings: @lizziside character. Then story for me, tho I see story as general and plot being more detailed #scriptchat
7:10 pm carter_andrewj: @dizzydentfilms Wasn't saying the message was wrong - but which way round we label the factors is purely arbitrary. #scriptchat
7:11 pm DreamsGrafter: @carter_andrewj Reason why I'm asking is that I find I can write drafts of tight plotting but not know my story. #scriptchat
7:11 pm robinkelly1: Even if we think of plot before characters, we can still make plot character-driven and therefore a good story. #scriptchat
7:11 pm Jonathan_Peace: @DreamsGrafter My rough draft is all story. The rewrites are making sure the plot works, even adding plot elements #scriptchat
7:11 pm lizziside: @DreamsGrafter: me too but I wonder if it can be worked backwards just as well #scriptchat
7:11 pm lupiilu: Hey all, just got back from sisters, lounging in the sun while her boyfriends cooked, I just had to drink and eat, fab. :) #scriptchat
7:12 pm Jonathan_Peace: I think Stephen King says in his book On Writing that your initial draft should be pure story. #scriptchat
7:12 pm filmutopia: #scriptchat for me plot is the structural framework, story is what I build with that framework. But that's just me. One plot many stories.
7:12 pm carter_andrewj: @DreamsGrafter Personally, I get to the plot first - but inevitably tweak the plot once I have characters (and, ergo, story). #scriptchat
7:12 pm DreamsGrafter: I remember when doing my MA & asking other writers 'but what is your story?' Just bc you have plot, doesn't mean you have story. #scriptchat
7:13 pm carter_andrewj: RT @DreamsGrafter: I remember when doing my MA & asking other writers 'but what is your story?' Just bc you have plot, doesn't mean you have story. #scriptchat
7:13 pm lizziside: @2weddings do you actually see character already embarking on a specific emotional journey? #scriptchat
7:13 pm diannesalerni: Hello, everyone! Popping in to the early session today for awhile. #scriptchat
7:14 pm carter_andrewj: Plot is walls, floors and girders. Story is architecture. #scriptchat
7:14 pm diannesalerni: RT @carter_andrewj: Plot is walls, floors and girders. Story is architecture. #scriptchat
7:14 pm dizzydentfilms: If you put different characters in the same plot, the story will be different. #scriptchat
7:15 pm Jonathan_Peace: (1/2) You do need both though, kinda like travelling by ship. (bear with me on this) You need the ship to get to the destination #scriptchat
7:15 pm carter_andrewj: @dizzydentfilms Was thinking something exactly along those lines- #scriptchat
7:15 pm CriticalTodd: What I see in a lot of short screenplays that I've read is just a setup for a twist - no real story, plot, or characters. #scriptchat
7:15 pm carter_andrewj: A dozen people could write the same plot and create 13 different stories. #scriptchat
7:15 pm DreamsGrafter: @robinkelly1 But story is about more than character. It's about theme, world as well as emotional core. #scriptchat
7:15 pm LisaFromNYC: I come up with a plot then create characters/situations to get my story. it's all confusing though #scriptchat
7:15 pm Jonathan_Peace: (2/2) and you need the destination to know you need a ship. *scratching my head on that one* #scriptchat
7:15 pm thewritertype: #scriptchat I often think of plot first. Narrative is my drug of choice and plot is the fix. Then down to work.
7:16 pm DreamsGrafter: Story is heart/meaning. RT @carter_andrewj Plot is walls, floors and girders. Story is architecture. #scriptchat
7:16 pm Jonathan_Peace: I think the heats got to me. #scriptchat
7:16 pm LisaFromNYC: true. diff conflicts change it RT @dizzydentfilms If you put different characters in the same plot, the story will be different #scriptchat
7:16 pm carter_andrewj: @DreamsGrafter @robinkelly1 Yes, but character, theme and emotion are all interlinked. Only plot can exist on its own. #scriptchat
7:17 pm LisaFromNYC: or plane, or camel lol RT @Jonathan_Peace and you need the destination to know you need a ship *scratching my head on that one* #scriptchat
7:17 pm diannesalerni: @Jonathan_Peace That actually makes sense. It's brilliant in fact. The heat is good for you. #scriptchat
7:17 pm DreamsGrafter: Agree, big time! RT @carter_andrewj: A dozen people could write the same plot and create 13 different stories. #scriptchat
7:17 pm thetissuetalk: .@Jonathan_Peace lol. #scriptchat
7:18 pm 2weddings: If I come up with a story I normally stop & think about the character for a while. Its about a girl who... #scriptchat
7:18 pm jeannevb: hey @dreamsgrafter... sorry I'm late! #scriptchat
7:18 pm DreamsGrafter: @carter_andrewj @robinkelly1 Completely agree re char/them/emotions interlinked. #scriptchat
7:18 pm lizziside: so, do you start from charcater and work backwards to story? RT @LisaFromNYC: @dizzydentfilms #scriptchat
7:18 pm shrikrish: Plot an excuse, characters an accident, a story an unplanned child. Who you spend your life worrying about #scriptchat
7:18 pm jolenejahnke: RT @LisaFromNYC: "Martin Scorsese on Story vs. Plot" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrkHyvl5NeI&feature=player_embedded #scriptchat
7:19 pm lupiilu: Ack! just had to restart laptop, so hello again. #scriptchat
7:19 pm Jonathan_Peace: Plot = what & when Story = why & how. No ships were harmed in the making of this analogy. #scriptchat
7:19 pm DreamsGrafter: @jeannevb Hi hon! :) xoxo #scriptchat
7:19 pm DreamsGrafter: Story is the reason why a reader is kept interested and an audience is engaged. #scriptchat
7:20 pm 2weddings: RT @robinkelly1: (6/6) 1, 2, 3 are taken from this lecture by Nicola Schindler, TV prodco boss: http://bit.ly/OnceUponATime #scriptchat
7:20 pm Jonathan_Peace: Get the chocolate out! :) RT @lupiilu: Ack! just had to restart laptop, so hello again. #scriptchat
7:20 pm jeannevb: @DreamsGrafter trying to catch up... love the EURO crowd ;) #scriptchat
7:20 pm carter_andrewj: Am trying to find more analogies which don't involve masonry and wallpaper. #amFailing #scriptchat
7:20 pm pattyfantasia: RT @DreamsGrafter: Story is the reason why a reader is kept interested and an audience is engaged. #scriptchat
7:20 pm LisaFromNYC: @lizziside (1/2) I start with plot & create a FLAW for a character that conflicts w/plot. Then conflicting relationships. #scriptchat
7:20 pm DreamsGrafter: An audience doesn't engage bc of turning points, the engage because they care. #scriptchat
7:20 pm diannesalerni: Story is the connection the reader/viewer makes with the characters. Plot is just what happens. #scriptchat
7:20 pm lupiilu: @Jonathan_Peace lol, drastically needed! like the ship analogy. #scriptchat
7:21 pm JLichtenberg: RT @DreamsGrafter: I remember when doing my MA & asking other writers 'but what is your story?' Just bc you have plot, doesn't mean you have story. #scriptchat
7:21 pm Jonathan_Peace: Uh, oh! Mums (@jeannevb) here! *hide the whips* #scriptchat
7:21 pm lizziside: ..and remembers the film for RT @DreamsGrafter: Story is the reason why a reader is kept interested and an audience is engaged. #scriptchat
7:21 pm DreamsGrafter: Ha! RT @shrikrish Plot an excuse, characters an accident, a story an unplanned child. Who you spend your life worrying about #scriptchat
7:21 pm carter_andrewj: Best example of recent plot devoid of story? Avatar. #scriptchat
7:22 pm jeannevb: maybe no whipping on a Sunday ;) #catholicguilt RT @Jonathan_Peace: Uh, oh! Mums (@jeannevb) here! *hide the whips* #scriptchat
7:22 pm filmutopia: #scriptchat - I don't have a lot to say about this. I prefer to think in terms of processes rather than terminology.
7:22 pm diannesalerni: @carter_andrewj Ah ... is that why I have no desire to see it? #scriptchat
7:22 pm LisaFromNYC: @lizziside (2/2) ex: I have a comedy where time is a plot point so my pro is impatience #scriptchat
7:22 pm dizzydentfilms: @lizziside I always start with character, but not by choice. These days, if you want to sell, gotta find a HIGH concept. #scriptchat
7:22 pm lupiilu: @Jonathan_Peace You and @Jeannevb and whips? scary! #scriptchat
7:22 pm DreamsGrafter: Agree! RT @diannesalerni: Story is the connection the reader/viewer makes with the characters. Plot is just what happens. #scriptchat
7:23 pm 2weddings: @DreamsGrafter totally agree. audience connects with emotions characters are feeling throughout #story #scriptchat
7:23 pm jeannevb: its how I keep him in line ;) RT @lupiilu: @Jonathan_Peace You and @Jeannevb and whips? scary! #scriptchat
7:23 pm carter_andrewj: @diannesalerni And why I wish I hadn't wasted 3 hours of my life. And why James Cameron is now on "the list". #scriptchat
7:23 pm thescriptlab: Turning points can expose a characters flaws by making sure main protag is the cause of their own probs. Makes us root for them. #scriptchat
7:23 pm lupiilu: @jeannevb pmsl, taking notes here you know. ;p #scriptchat
7:24 pm dizzydentfilms: @filmutopia That's fine, but when you're pitching, they are gonna ask you and you better know the answer. #scriptchat
7:24 pm DreamsGrafter: @filmutopia I found myself writing an outline and thinking it just lacked heart. What is this about? What am I trying to say? #scriptchat
7:24 pm jeannevb: i'm a detail person when I write, so the plot is just the skeleton. My job is to add the depth, the veins, the guts #scriptchat
7:25 pm lizziside: plot is character & structure and serves as an emotional builder - story is plot + meaning #scriptchat
7:25 pm jeannevb: I outline the plot then ask, how can I move the audience emotionally w interesting chars? That's the story #scriptchat
7:25 pm dizzydentfilms: @filmutopia Not the definition. I mean what the story of your screenplay is. They ask. #scriptchat
7:25 pm carter_andrewj: Concept > Plot > Characters / Themes / Style > Story #scriptchat
7:25 pm DreamsGrafter: @filmutopia Do u have a process how to deal w/ those questions? Since doing my MA, I think I overthink plot & 4get abt the rest. #scriptchat
7:26 pm Jonathan_Peace: I'm about to start my 3rd script and have a skeletal plot. The story will add the muscle, the characters the heart. #scriptchat
7:26 pm carter_andrewj: (Those were actually supposed to be arrows, not "greater than" signs. Sorry.) #scriptchat
7:26 pm robinkelly1: RT @carter_andrewj: Concept > Plot > Characters / Themes / Style > Story #scriptchat
7:26 pm lizziside: @dizzydentfilms: Sad but pragmatic #scriptchat
7:26 pm DreamsGrafter: @jeannevb What about the theme? World? Don't you think that's part of the story too? #scriptchat Or do you let them develop w/ chars?
7:26 pm Jonathan_Peace: When I write it I add the blood, sweat & tears until I stand amidst a lightning storm and cry "It's alive!!!" #scriptchat
7:27 pm jeannevb: my approach too RT @carter_andrewj: Concept > Plot > Characters / Themes / Style > Story #scriptchat
7:27 pm DreamsGrafter: @carter_andrewj So it's normal to discover your story as you're writing your script? That's how I find my theme too. #scriptchat
7:28 pm Jonathan_Peace: then run maniacally down the street chased by a mob with pitchforks and burning torches calling for rewrites! #scriptchat
7:28 pm 2weddings: #scriptchat when do writers generally do a step outline? I did 1st draft & then step outline for 2nd draft. 1/2
7:28 pm carter_andrewj: > 1st Draft > 2nd Draft > Editing > Recriminations > Tears > Howls of Rage > 3rd Draft > Rejection Letters #scriptchat
7:28 pm KarenSperling: Man goes to bank: story Man goes to bank to rob it: plot #scriptchat
7:29 pm jeannevb: 1. concept. 2. chars & flaws 3. outline/theme 4. synopsis. Writing synopsis, flushes out problems b4 writing script #scriptchat
7:29 pm DreamsGrafter: @2weddings Yes and jeopardy/stakes these characters have to suffer. #scriptchat
7:29 pm lupiilu: pmls! RT @carter_andrewj: > 1st Draft > 2nd Draft > Editing > Recriminations > Tears > Howls of Rage > 3rd Draft > Rejection #scriptchat
7:29 pm jeannevb: @DreamsGrafter just answered that in last tweet w my approach #scriptchat
7:29 pm lizziside: @LisaFromNYC so your story stems from plot. Does it always go where you want it to? #scriptchat
7:29 pm sunspotpictures: RT @jeannevb: 1. concept. 2. chars & flaws 3. outline/theme 4. synopsis. Writing synopsis, flushes out problems b4 writing script #scriptchat
7:30 pm DreamsGrafter: And then gives screenwriters the money. ;) RT @KarenSperling: Man goes to bank: story Man goes to bank to rob it: plot #scriptchat
7:30 pm Jonathan_Peace: @2weddings I do a basic outline, rough draft, edit 1, rewrite 1, edit 2, rewrite 2. #scriptchat
7:30 pm jeannevb: @sunspotpictures i loathe synopses but have learned to appreciate their value. ;) #scriptchat
7:30 pm 2weddings: #scriptchat step outline was just more detailed plot, more detailed than treatment. On 1st draft I did index cards, plotting story 2/2
7:30 pm lupiilu: @KarenSperling I read similar, story - king dies, then queen dies, plot - king dies, queen dies of grief, plot adds depth #scriptchat
7:30 pm carter_andrewj: @DreamsGrafter I usually break the back of the story/theme in the beat sheet - but I write fairly involved beat sheets. #scriptchat
7:32 pm thewritertype: #scriptchat I let the story tell itself to me, meet the characters, and discover what they want. Is that a process?
7:32 pm Jonathan_Peace: I'm just starting rewrite 2 on Deadline. 7 days 120 pages. #scriptchat
7:32 pm JLichtenberg: @DreamsGrafter #scriptchat http://ht.ly/1OOtY is my blog entry PLOT VS. STORY - which explains the difference and how they interact...
7:32 pm DreamsGrafter: @jeannevb Don't you find that in writing process what you think you were writing about is actually about something else? #scriptchat
7:33 pm lupiilu: I write 1st draft, then seperate 2nd draft. then outline. it's odd, but works for me 2nd draft I don't refer to 1st. #scriptchat
7:33 pm LisaFromNYC: @lizziside I do an outline of all the beats & follow that & it flows better. Tiny changes r usually 2 enhance char conflicts #scriptchat
7:33 pm thescriptlab: Concept > Full bios for characters > Beat Sheet > 1st Draft > Polish > Read Through > 2nd Draft #scriptchat
7:33 pm robinkelly1: RT @jeannevb: I outline the plot then ask, how can I move the audience emotionally w interesting chars? That's the story #scriptchat
7:33 pm LisaFromNYC: @LisaFromNYC Do u do beats first, or r u a free writer? #scriptchat
7:34 pm Bang2write: Thought you might like this from the archive: http://lucyvee.blogspot.com/2007/07/story-vs-plot.html #scriptchat @DreamsGrafter
7:34 pm LisaFromNYC: I meant this for @lizziside Do u do beats first, or r u a free writer? #scriptchat
7:34 pm ScriptCoach: @2weddings #scriptchat On current script: 1: novel attempt; 2: greatly revised synopsis; 3: treatment; 4: 0-draft; 5: replotted midway...
7:34 pm lizziside: Story should bear some sign of the "message" the writer wants to put forward, how can it come after plot w/o losing intention? #scriptchat
7:34 pm Jonathan_Peace: Tonights #scriptchat is accompanied by Bon Jovi Lost Highway concert DVD. #scriptchat
7:34 pm Bang2write: I think of it in simple terms... Story is the *seed* - plot is the *tree* #scriptchat
7:35 pm carter_andrewj: Concept: King dies, Queen dies. Plot: King dies, then Queen dies of grief. Story: King dies, Queen tries to move on, but dies. #scriptchat
7:35 pm diannesalerni: This chat just made me realize why revisions I'm making on WIP improve it so much. 1st draft, I didn't know what my story was. #scriptchat
7:35 pm ScriptCoach: @2weddings #scriptchat 6: yet again revised synopsis; 7: 0.1-draft (currently writing)
7:35 pm DreamsGrafter: I like that. RT @Bang2write: I think of it in simple terms... Story is the *seed* - plot is the *tree* #scriptchat
7:35 pm JLichtenberg: RT @Bang2write: .. this from the archive: http://lucyvee.blogspot.com/2007/07/story-vs-plot.html #scriptchat @DreamsGrafter
7:35 pm DreamsGrafter: RT @lizziside: Story should bear some sign of the "message" the writer wants to put forward, how can it come after plot w/o losing intention? #scriptchat
7:36 pm Jonathan_Peace: @diannesalerni I found that too. these rewrites have revealed a whole new story I wasn't even aware of. #scriptchat
7:36 pm ScriptCoach: @2weddings #scriptchat 0-draft meaning first rough scripting pass, which doesn't become Draft 1 until at least one edit of the whole thing.
7:36 pm jeannevb: this script, we started rewrite of 1st draft B4 finishing last 10 scenes. Ending changed bc the chars richer #scriptchat
7:36 pm DreamsGrafter: @lizziside Absolutely. You can't plan yr theme for instance. Why we write and what we want to write comes fr. somewhere deeper. #scriptchat
7:37 pm RGreco2009: RT @Trigonis: Well-said! RT @thewritertype @Jonathan_Peace It's about the emotional impact. Story is the experience, plot is the mechanics. #scriptchat
7:37 pm thescriptlab: Full detailed bios for chars can really help to solve those act2 probs before they start. Also adds tons of depth to stry #scriptchat
7:37 pm DreamsGrafter: @lizziside So therefore the stories we want to tell and what we want to say aren't on the surface. #scriptchat
7:37 pm lizziside: @LisaFromNYC Ok, but to me ur approach does not exclude story as a primordial thought...maybe there in the back of ur mind #scriptchat
7:37 pm dizzydentfilms: @lizziside You mean theme? If you've written a great character, it will be born organically. #scriptchat
7:37 pm jeannevb: @DreamsGrafter @lizziside agree! For me, theme is in the char dev. I analyze the crap out them to find deeper message #scriptchat
7:38 pm DreamsGrafter: I find that I'm telling the same story over again through very different plots. #scriptchat
7:38 pm Bang2write: I've read so many scripts where I've understood the plot (character does this, this, then this) but not known what the STORY is #scriptchat
7:38 pm Jonathan_Peace: Sometimes though its nice to just write FADE IN and see where those crazy characters want to go. Like good jazz, let it riff. #scriptchat
7:38 pm lupiilu: @carter_andrewj I like that, it's a better explanation. #scriptchat
7:38 pm lizziside: RT @DreamsGrafter: @lizziside So therefore the stories we want to tell and what we want to say arent on the surface. #scriptchat
7:39 pm 2weddings: @lizziside most of the time. Its good because smtimes I'll get key scenes or images, the images end up at the end of a scene #scriptchat
7:39 pm DreamsGrafter: My point exactly. RT @Bang2write: I've read so many scripts where I've understood the plot but not known what the STORY is #scriptchat
7:39 pm JLichtenberg: RT @DreamsGrafter: I find that I'm telling the same story over again through very different plots. #scriptchat
7:40 pm Bang2write: @DreamsGrafter just a few stories in the world... 2 few writers know what theirs is at GRASS ROOT LEVEL, ie. "fish out of water" #scriptchat
7:40 pm Jonathan_Peace: I asked last week but no one took it up. Anyone want a FREE Lexmark 17 black cartridge? #scriptchat
7:40 pm dizzydentfilms: @Jonathan_Peace I get into deep doodoo if I do that. Now I won't start without a solid beatsheet. Hate headaches. #scriptchat
7:40 pm lupiilu: @DreamsGrafter I found that some of my stories have the same theme. I guess there's something I'm trying to tell myself. lol #scriptchat
7:40 pm DreamsGrafter: @Bang2write Wish you could #scriptchat more often. ;)
7:40 pm lizziside: like it's ontological? RT @dizzydentfilms: @lizziside If youve written a great character, it will be born organically. #scriptchat
7:41 pm lupiilu: @Jonathan_Peace have a canon hun, sorry. x #scriptchat
7:42 pm Jonathan_Peace: @dizzydentfilms Sometimes its good to just go with it though. :) #scriptchat
7:42 pm thescriptlab: @Bang2write It helps to establish a strong theme, then build a story that supports. Theme is crucial. #scriptchat
7:42 pm Bang2write: @DreamsGrafter ah ta dearie, 8pm is usually the Wee Girl's "I'm gonna go crazy and get dragged to bed" hour #scriptchat
7:42 pm carter_andrewj: Options from concept - 1: Get plot. Use plot to tell best story for that plot. 2: Get story. Add plot to best tell that story. #scriptchat
7:42 pm DreamsGrafter: @Bang2write At the heart of my stories, I seem to explore the meaning of identity. #scriptchat
7:42 pm Jonathan_Peace: @lupiilu I'd like to say I do too... #scriptchat
7:42 pm JLichtenberg: RT @thescriptlab: @Bang2write It helps to establish a strong theme, then build a story that supports. Theme is crucial. #scriptchat
7:43 pm LisaFromNYC: @lizziside Story is in mind. Plot=man robs bank. then I may have pro b despert family man. child needs oper, denied health care #scriptchat
7:43 pm jeannevb: most ppl pitch plot. Producer imagines story potential. Often doesnt live up to its potential. Story makes it stand out #scriptchat
7:43 pm dizzydentfilms: @Jonathan_Peace I have a stack of shitty screenplays because I went with it. But if it works for you, congrats. I envy you. #scriptchat
7:43 pm DreamsGrafter: @Bang2write Even if I think I'm writing about something else, it always comes back to that. #scriptchat (I don't think u can plan story.)
7:43 pm JLichtenberg: RT @dizzydentfilms: @Jonathan_Peace I get into deep doodoo if I do that. Now I won't start without a solid beatsheet. #scriptchat
7:43 pm jeannevb: A great book re: THEME is Inside Story by Dara Marks. Link is on our blog www.scriptchat.com #scriptchat
7:43 pm 2weddings: @ScriptCoach this sounds like hard work! I think current screenplay is quite easy in plot terms, they wont all be like that tho #scriptchat
7:43 pm lizziside: RT @Bang2write: Ive read so many scripts where Ive understood the plot ....but not known what the STORY is #scriptchat
7:44 pm Bang2write: @TheScriptLab theme/story -- it's chicken or egg for me #scriptchat
7:44 pm lupiilu: @Jonathan_Peace @dizzydentfilms I wrote 1st draft, then seperate 2nd, helped to establish 1 character and kill another. #scriptchat
7:44 pm DreamsGrafter: RT @jeannevb: A great book re: THEME is Inside Story by Dara Marks. Link is on our blog www.scriptchat.com #scriptchat
7:44 pm 2weddings: @ScriptCoach and I use the word 'easy' quite loosely there #scriptchat
7:44 pm JLichtenberg: RT @DreamsGrafter: RT @jeannevb: A great book re: THEME is Inside Story by Dara Marks. Link is on our blog www.scriptchat.com #scriptchat
7:44 pm dizzydentfilms: @lizziside Take Children of Heaven. It's just abt 2 kids trying 2 find a pair of shoes. Simple. But the themes R just beautiful #scriptchat
7:45 pm jeannevb: @DreamsGrafter have u read it? It's fab. Uses case studies of films to demonstrate use of theme (re; Inside Story) #scriptchat
7:45 pm LisaFromNYC: agreed RT @jeannevb: A great book re: THEME is Inside Story by Dara Marks. Link is on our blog www.scriptchat.com #scriptchat
7:45 pm Bang2write: @DreamsGrafter "men destroy women" appears to be at the heart of a lot of my stories!! Scarily #scriptchat
7:45 pm thewritertype: #scriptchat Told by producer to now write script based on my outline, then rewrite outline because story will change.
7:45 pm thescriptlab: @LisaFromNYC Denzel Washington - John Q #scriptchat
7:45 pm robinkelly1: RT @DreamsGrafter: I find that I'm telling the same story over again through very different plots. <--Most do, it's our voice. #scriptchat
7:45 pm lizziside: @LisaFromNYC ok, now I got you #scriptchat
7:45 pm JLichtenberg: RT @jeannevb: most ppl pitch plot. Producer imagines story potential. Often doesnt live up to its potential... #scriptchat
7:45 pm Jonathan_Peace: @dizzydentfilms My rough drafts aren't too rigidly structured in terms of plot, but based on a basic outline. Then I rewrite. #scriptchat
7:45 pm lupiilu: @Jonathan_Peace @dizzydentfilms The story stayed same, but gave new perspective on story, plot and character. #scriptchat
7:45 pm Bang2write: @DreamsGrafter I disagree -- I think story can be planned #scriptchat
7:46 pm DreamsGrafter: @lupiilu Yeah, that's what I'm discovering the more I write. Guess our stories are why we're writers. #scriptchat We have something to say.
7:46 pm 2weddings: @Jonathan_Peace I found it easier looking at plot in the outline rather than in screenplay, am doing it in screenplay now tho #scriptchat
7:47 pm DreamsGrafter: @Bang2write How do you plan your stories? #tips? I've gone back to writing prose/short stories to find my story first. #scriptchat
7:47 pm carter_andrewj: @Bang2write @DreamsGrafter Depends whether by "story" you mean "voice"? #scriptchat
7:47 pm JLichtenberg: @DreamsGrafter #scriptchat http://ht.ly/1OOEv is my blog entry PLOT VS. STORY - which explains the difference and how they interact...
7:47 pm LisaFromNYC: lol I was thinking of that one. I was using ex of how plot>char>theme etc RT @thescriptlab Denzel Washington - John Q #scriptchat
7:47 pm Jonathan_Peace: @lupiilu @2weddings I do have a beat sheet now for the rewrites when I sit & mark out what works, what to develop. & the C word. #scriptchat
7:47 pm lizziside: A great theme can make up for a simple plot, a agree totally RT @dizzydentfilms: @lizziside Take Children of Heaven.... #scriptchat
7:47 pm robinkelly1: @Bang2write: Me too - even more scarily... #scriptchat
7:47 pm Bang2write: @DreamsGrafter if you start with genre and the TYPE of story w/ a look at convention, you can do anything... Q is, do U want to? #scriptchat
7:47 pm DreamsGrafter: @Bang2write I don't call them outlines at that stage bc otherwise, I'll think about plotting. #scriptchat
7:48 pm CriticalTodd: My latest formula: logline to synopsis/treatment to script. #scriptchat
7:48 pm carter_andrewj: If a creation has plot but no story it's usually bad. But is it even possible to have story without plot? #scriptchat
7:48 pm lupiilu: @DreamsGrafter absolutely, I write to explore things and find them relateable & make then relateable to others. #scriptchat
7:48 pm Jonathan_Peace: I hate the C word. With a passion. #scriptchat
7:48 pm yeah_write: Sorry I'm missing Euro #scriptchat this afternoon, but I've been in the studio working all day. Miss you guys!
7:48 pm Bang2write: @DreamsGrafter I go for an organic approach -- I write pitches, show them around, ask ppl's opinions, grow from there #scriptchat
7:48 pm thescriptlab: @Bang2write Totally... But theme is great to keep you on track. At crossroads always ask... which supports the theme? #scriptchat
7:48 pm DreamsGrafter: Thank you! RT @JLichtenberg: #scriptchat http://ht.ly/1OOEv is my blog entry PLOT VS. STORY which explains the diff & how they interact ...
7:49 pm jeannevb: @yeah_write miss you too, Jamie... see you tonight? #scriptchat
7:49 pm Jonathan_Peace: But when people I showed my script to kept using the C word I realised they must be right. #scriptchat
7:49 pm thescriptlab: @LisaFromNYC totally #scriptchat
7:49 pm LisaFromNYC: logline 1st really does help RT @CriticalTodd My latest formula: logline to synopsis/treatment to script. #scriptchat
7:49 pm lupiilu: @DreamsGrafter Some of them are personal, some are things I just want to explore something. feeling, character. etc. #scriptchat
7:49 pm Bang2write: @TheScriptLab Sure, I say the same to my clients ; ) #scriptchat
7:49 pm ScriptCoach: @2weddings #scriptchat Easy is always relative. And yeah, this was roundabout, but every story finds its own route to the page/screen.
7:50 pm DreamsGrafter: @Bang2write That's cool, I like the organic approach. That's what I'm trying out w/ my short stories. #scriptchat
7:50 pm 2weddings: @ScriptCoach yes, unlike me whos done structural rewrite & am now caling it the nxt draft, even tho its prob. the same rewrite #scriptchat
7:50 pm lizziside: Theme is then an element of story? #scriptchat
7:50 pm Bang2write: @carter_andrewj depends... sometimes a recurrent theme can hint at your concerns as a person, not always tho #scriptchat
7:50 pm Jonathan_Peace: How dare they?? CUT - my - writing?? #scriptchat
7:50 pm lupiilu: @Jonathan_Peace I do that after the 1st 2 seperate drafts. tighten story & plot, by which time I know most other elements. #scriptchat
7:51 pm 2weddings: @Bang2write because there is no story? Ie nothing really happens? It sounds odd but i've read scripts like that too. #scriptchat
7:51 pm LisaFromNYC: need 2 watch this RT @dizzydentfilms Take Children of Heaven. It's just abt 2 kids trying 2 find a pair of shoes. Simple... #scriptchat
7:52 pm carter_andrewj: @Bang2write Which was kinda my point. #scriptchat
7:52 pm lupiilu: @Jonathan_Peace whats this about C word? #scriptchat
7:52 pm DreamsGrafter: I think so. RT @lizziside: Theme is then an element of story? #scriptchat
7:52 pm Bang2write: @2weddings the "nothing really happens" draft is alive and well in the slush pile, v true!!! #scriptchat
7:52 pm dizzydentfilms: @Jonathan_Peace Do you hate the A word too? #scriptchat
7:52 pm Jonathan_Peace: That was a story. A plot would have been: He wrote a script, showed some people, made changes. #scriptchat
7:52 pm jeannevb: linked on blog ;) RT @DreamsGrafter:RT @JLichtenberg: #scriptchat http://ht.ly/1OOEv PLOT VS. STORY #scriptchat
7:53 pm carter_andrewj: @Jonathan_Peace Kill your darlings man. The story's what's important. And the plot. And the Characters. And themes. #scriptchat
7:53 pm Bang2write: @carter_andrewj >and thank god for that, else there would be a lot of writers I would need to KILL for their shitty POVs #scriptchat
7:53 pm dizzydentfilms: @LisaFromNYC Been trying to write THAT movie since I saw it. #scriptchat
7:53 pm thescriptlab: @lizziside Theme is the "why?" http://bit.ly/cxbkHF #scriptchat
7:54 pm Bang2write: @carter_andrewj not the way I saw it....! Ooooh, could that be a different interpretation?? LOL #scriptchat
7:54 pm justcustard: #scriptchat @thewritertype kind do the same. Idea, leads to stoy then create characters & dialog that works best / compliments story.
7:54 pm carter_andrewj: @Bang2write ...Wait... You mean there aren't *already* a lot of writer's you need to kill??? #scriptchat
7:54 pm jeannevb: also linked Martin Scorsese youtube clip Story vs Plot on blog www.scriptchat.com #scriptchat
7:54 pm thewritertype: #scriptchat I've lost the plot.
7:54 pm Jonathan_Peace: @carter_andrewj I kinda like killing em now. LOL! #scriptchat
7:55 pm Bang2write: @carter_andrewj well I need to kill you for your confused use of apostrophes... #scriptchat
7:55 pm jeannevb: the whole story vs plot concept I think is why I'm not a huge rom com fan. They're all so predictable #scriptchat
7:55 pm DreamsGrafter: @robinkelly1 I thought our voice is our take on the subject we're tackling rather than the story we're exploring. #scriptchat
7:55 pm LisaFromNYC: RT @thescriptlab Theme is the "why?" http://bit.ly/cxbkHF #scriptchat
7:55 pm Jonathan_Peace: It's the heat! RT @thewritertype: #scriptchat Ive lost the plot. #scriptchat
7:55 pm thescriptlab: Stories that lack depth tend to lack a theme. #scriptchat
7:55 pm carter_andrewj: @Jonathan_Peace And why shouldn't you? :D - The C-word's their damn fault in the first place! #scriptchat
7:55 pm jeannevb: we need to do theme as a topic one night #scriptchat
7:56 pm Bang2write: @DreamsGrafter I think it depends on the writer and their personality - ie. HOW MUCH they need to tell that story and why #scriptchat
7:56 pm ElizabethHoActs: RT @thescriptlab: Stories that lack depth tend to lack a theme. #scriptchat
7:56 pm jolenejahnke: @CriticalTodd Tried that, but found story wanted to be something other than what logline was. Took on life of it's own. #scriptchat
7:56 pm JLichtenberg: @lizziside #scriptchat http://ht.ly/1OOLb Is a blog entry on HOW TO USE THEME AS ART, not only part of story, but plot, character etc
7:56 pm jeannevb: love this RT @LisaFromNYC: RT @thescriptlab Theme is the "why?" http://bit.ly/cxbkHF #scriptchat
7:56 pm thescriptlab: RT Absolutely. VERY under rated. @jeannevb: we need to do theme as a topic one night #scriptchat
7:56 pm ScriptCoach: @2weddings #scriptchat For me a draft is a demarkation of havng (re)written to the point of completion and to the point where-- 1/2
7:57 pm Bang2write: @jeannevb that's what I used to think... But the MANY variations of the same thing in the Rom Com - that's what's masterful. #scriptchat
7:57 pm DreamsGrafter: @jeannevb re rom com, that's a genre issue hon. Rom coms is one of the most prescriptive genres. #scriptchat
7:57 pm Jonathan_Peace: @carter_andrewj But that whole C ramble was a poor example of showing what story & plot were/are Don't think it worked. #scriptchat
7:57 pm ScriptCoach: @2weddings #scriptchat --you cannot improve without either fresh input/insight. And from business POV changes must be substantial. 2/2
7:57 pm kingisafink: That would be fun! RT @jeannevb we need to do theme as a topic one night #scriptchat
7:57 pm JLichtenberg: RT @jeannevb: we need to do theme as a topic one night #scriptchat
7:57 pm LisaFromNYC: xformers 2. why did I watch that? *scratches head* RT @thescriptlab Stories that lack depth tend to lack a theme. #scriptchat
7:57 pm DreamsGrafter: RT @Bang2write: @DreamsGrafter I think it depends on the writer and their personality - ie. HOW MUCH they need to tell that story and why #scriptchat
7:57 pm lizziside: RT @thescriptlab: @lizziside Theme is the "why?" http://bit.ly/cxbkHF #scriptchat
7:57 pm HateTheHate: RT @thewritertype: #scriptchat I've lost the plot.
7:57 pm carter_andrewj: Where/When = Setting, What = Concept, How = Plot, Who = Characters, Why = Story #scriptchat
7:57 pm jeannevb: so imp too ;) RT @kingisafink: That would be fun! RT @jeannevb we need to do theme as a topic one night #scriptchat
7:58 pm JLichtenberg: @jeannevb #scriptchat http://ht.ly/1OOMw HOW TO USE THEME AS ART would be a good jumping off place for a #scriptchat
7:58 pm DreamsGrafter: RT @jeannevb: also linked Martin Scorsese youtube clip Story vs Plot on blog www.scriptchat.com #scriptchat
7:58 pm Evenstephen2000: It IS a great book! RT @jeannevb: A great book re: THEME is Inside Story by Dara Marks. Link is on our blog www.scriptchat.com #scriptchat
7:58 pm lupiilu: RT @jeannevb: so imp too ;) RT @kingisafink: That would be fun! RT @jeannevb we need to do theme as a topic one night #scriptchat
7:58 pm justcustard: RT @Bang2write: I've read so many scripts where I've understood the plot (character does this, this, then this) but not known what the STORY is #scriptchat
7:59 pm ambigfoot: The whole mushy sentimentalized sick inducing slushiness is why I ain't a fan of the romcom @jeannevb oh and fucking hugh grant #scriptchat
7:59 pm thewritertype: #scriptchat I'm still worried about the queen. Can't she get help, process her grief and marry her therapist?
7:59 pm dizzydentfilms: John August on theme. http://bit.ly/dgaea8 #scriptchat
7:59 pm Bang2write: @DreamsGrafter @jeannevb - but ALL genres are prescriptive, that's the point. Else it would be drama. And no1 likes that!! Lol #scriptchat
7:59 pm JLichtenberg: #scriptchat THEME is what the author is saying, moral of the story, not character motives. THEME is origin of character motives.
8:00 pm dizzydentfilms: @thewritertype She's going on a road trip with her BFF. Then she'll realize she doesn't need a king to rule her kingdom. #scriptchat
8:00 pm Bang2write: @carter_andrewj nice, where did you get *that* from??? LOL #scriptchat
8:00 pm carter_andrewj: @JLichtenberg Indeed. Character motives can be utterly at odds with the theme - and thus demonstrate the message in absentia. #scriptchat
8:00 pm jeannevb: linked it ;)RT @JLichtenberg: @jeannevb http://bit.ly/atODlX HOW TO USE THEME AS ART would be a good jumping off place for a #scriptchat
8:01 pm Jonathan_Peace: @lupiilu I didn't see your message. C word = Cut #scriptchat
8:01 pm jeannevb: @JLichtenberg yes, it wld make GREAT start for the theme night topic! #scriptchat
8:01 pm onewordtoofar: RT @thewritertype: #scriptchat I've lost the plot.
8:01 pm jeannevb: @ambigfoot mushy predictability makes me barf ;) #scriptchat
8:02 pm DreamsGrafter: I can't believe an hour's up already. Guys, continue running free on #scriptchat! I have to bow out and try to catch The Bad Lieutenant.
8:02 pm JLichtenberg: RT @jeannevb: @JLichtenberg yes, it wld make GREAT start for the theme night topic! #scriptchat ==>Just tell me when to be there!
8:02 pm lupiilu: @Jonathan_Peace lol, figured it out, eventually. lol #scriptchat
8:02 pm DreamsGrafter: Thanks so much everyone for joining in. Have learnt tons on this topic. Hope you have. #scriptchat
8:02 pm Bang2write: Right, CSI: NY calling. Ciao pretties #scriptchat
8:03 pm LisaFromNYC: RT @carter_andrewj @JLichtenberg Indeed. Char motives can be at odds w theme - & thus demonstrate the message in absentia #scriptchat
8:03 pm DreamsGrafter: Thanks also to @jeannevb who is #scriptchat Queen Bee. xo
8:03 pm Jonathan_Peace: @DreamsGrafter Enjoy the movie. Thanks for tonight! X #scriptchat
8:03 pm JLichtenberg: @carter_andrewj #scriptchat CharMotiv is derived from THEME, and viewer then has to FIGURE OUT what theme is, which gives "depth"
8:03 pm lizziside: @DreamsGrafter Have a nice evening :-)) ciao - #scriptchat
8:04 pm jeannevb: fyi, i've been adding TONS of stuff in right sidebar of our blog this week. GREAT resources www.scriptchat.com #scriptchat
8:04 pm Jonathan_Peace: @lupiilu I was trying to be clever and tell a story to show plot. don't think it worked. LOL #scriptchat
8:04 pm carter_andrewj: Thanks for the great chat guys. I shall away to coffee and quiet introspection. Followed shortly by loud music and writing. #scriptchat
8:04 pm FilmSnobbery: RT @jeannevb: fyi, i've been adding TONS of stuff in right sidebar of our blog this week. GREAT resources www.scriptchat.com #scriptchat
8:04 pm jeannevb: but I'll try not to sting.. unless u take my tequila away ;) RT @DreamsGrafter: Thanks also to @jeannevb who is #scriptchat Queen Bee. xo
8:04 pm CriticalTodd: @jolenejahnke That happened to me. What I did was I went back to the logline, amended it to fit the new angle, then went on... #scriptchat
8:04 pm JLichtenberg: RT @thescriptlab: man robs bank = story . destruction of health care system driving dad with sick child to rob bank = theme #scriptchat
8:04 pm lizziside: Huge thx to these girls :D RT @DreamsGrafter: Thanks also to @jeannevb who is #scriptchat Queen Bee. xo #scriptchat
8:05 pm carter_andrewj: @JLichtenberg Pretty much what I was trying to say. Sorry if it didn't come across. #scriptchat
8:05 pm lizziside: LOL RT @Jonathan_Peace: @lupiilu I was trying to be clever and tell a story to show plot. dont think it worked. LOL #scriptchat
8:05 pm thewritertype: #scriptchat Big thanks, a lot to process after a hot day. Time for my medicine. "Nurse, he's out of his bed again..."
8:05 pm jeannevb: I am loving the incredible people who come to #scriptchat every week to share & learn together. Thank YOU!
8:05 pm 2weddings: @ScriptCoach Yep. Then its still the same draft. I couldnt send it for feedback like it is now #scriptchat
8:06 pm jeannevb: Do you realize there's about 400 of us in total who are a part of #scriptchat
8:06 pm JLichtenberg: RT @jeannevb: Do you realize there's about 400 of us in total who are a part of #scriptchat
8:06 pm jeannevb: If you arent a fan of us on facebook, yet, plz join http://www.facebook.com/pages/ScriptChat/327209202689 #scriptchat
8:07 pm Jonathan_Peace: Viva La Revolution!! RT @jeannevb: Do you realize theres about 400 of us in total who are a part of #scriptchat
8:07 pm jeannevb: @JLichtenberg i've linked ur entire blog now too haha ;) #scriptchat
8:07 pm thewritertype: @JLichtenberg #scriptchat Now that is an excellent exegisis. Thanks.
8:07 pm jeannevb: #worlddomination, baby RT @Jonathan_Peace: Viva La Revolution!! RT @jeannevb: Do you realize theres about 400 of us #scriptchat
8:07 pm justcustard: @carter_andrewj #scriptchat I like it, if you boil down the concept to the essence is it not the same as the story?
8:08 pm dizzydentfilms: @jeannevb Good job Jeanne. #scriptchat
8:08 pm lizziside: This has been such a great session. #scriptchat
8:08 pm jeannevb: @dizzydentfilms thanks. I'm a bit anal when it comes to finding resources. Its also my procrastination tool haha #scriptchat
8:08 pm lupiilu: @Jonathan_Peace sorry hun, was in the sun most day with lots of alcohol. :) #scriptchat
8:09 pm ScriptCoach: @2weddings #scriptchat In the end it's just a matter of definition. I tend to use subdivisions for rewrites. "1.1" "1.2" etc.
8:09 pm jeannevb: I agree! RT @lizziside: This has been such a great session. #scriptchat
8:09 pm jolenejahnke: @CriticalTodd Pleased w new story I ended up with, but still love that original logline. Will 1day write a story that fits it! #scriptchat
8:10 pm lizziside: Yes!! RT @dizzydentfilms: @jeannevb Good job Jeanne. #scriptchat
8:10 pm scriptchat: Talking Plot vs Story in today's #scriptchat. EURO kicked it! Let's see what USA does at 8pm EST http://bit.ly/b7ojYZ
8:10 pm Jonathan_Peace: @dizzydentfilms Just saw the question you asked earlier. What's the A word? #scriptchat
8:11 pm Jonathan_Peace: heading back over to hootsuite.... #scriptchat
8:11 pm lupiilu: hear hear. x RT @lizziside: Yes!! RT @dizzydentfilms: @jeannevb Good job Jeanne. #scriptchat
8:11 pm HypocriteReader: man robs bank = story . destruction of health care system driving dad with sick child to rob bank = theme #scriptchat (via @TheScriptLab)
8:11 pm Jonathan_Peace: ... but will be back for US #scriptchat
8:12 pm dizzydentfilms: @Jonathan_Peace Audience. But I thought the C word was Commercial, not Cut. Nevermind. #scriptchat
8:12 pm carter_andrewj: @JLichtenberg Oh of course. Wasn't objecting to being rephrased, just worried I might originally have written drivel. #scriptchat
8:12 pm Jonathan_Peace: And you're back in the room. #scriptchat
8:12 pm lupiilu: @Jonathan_Peace oohhh, want to come, but gotta get up for Lost at 5am! I can not stay up all night, I'll sleep tomorrow if I do! #scriptchat
8:13 pm lizziside: u guys make me ROTFL tonite RT @dizzydentfilms: @Jonathan_Peace Audience. But I thought the C word was Commercial, not Cut... #scriptchat
8:13 pm dizzydentfilms: @jeannevb I'm so happy I can benefit from someone else's procrastination! #scriptchat
8:13 pm lizziside: u 2 guys make me ROTFL tonite RT @dizzydentfilms: @Jonathan_Peace Audience. But I thought the C word was Commercial, not Cut... #scriptchat
8:13 pm jeannevb: u'd better be! No sleep for you! ;) RT @Jonathan_Peace: ... but will be back for US #scriptchat
8:14 pm carter_andrewj: @justcustard When I say "story" I tend to mean the whole. But I'm straying into semantics there. Trying to say, "yes". #scriptchat
8:14 pm lupiilu: @lizziside @dizzydentfilms @jonathan Peace; pmsl #scriptchat
8:15 pm jeannevb: damn enablers ;) RT @dizzydentfilms: @jeannevb I'm so happy I can benefit from someone else's procrastination! #scriptchat
8:16 pm jeannevb: @lupiilu @lizziside #scriptchat *curtsy* ;)
8:17 pm jeannevb: guess I should pull this transcript.... thank you all for coming & thanks @dreamsgrafter for topic post! #scriptchat
8:17 pm JLichtenberg: @carter_andrewj #scriptchat I guess I understood U so there4 U wrote well!
8:19 pm thewritertype: @dizzydentfilms Try these 'Advanced Procrastination for Professionals' tips: http://bit.ly/bVg0DS #scriptchat
8:20 pm lupiilu: @jeannevb I'll be reading it all because I had to restart my laptop twice! Thank you hun, you do a great job here. x #scriptchat
8:20 pm jeannevb: @lizziside no problem. Pulling it now... The USA chat is even faster... this is why we drink ;) #scriptchat
USA chat:
jeannevb: BRING IT.... I dare you... tonight, we're talking Story vs Plot #scriptchat
PennyAsh: @jeannevb Rootbeer, oreos, chaps and all :) #scriptchat
dizzydentfilms: This is the Fake Socialist Country Edition, right? #scriptchat
12:01 am RickRapier: Taking time off from my rewrite for this -- Glad to be here! #scriptchat
12:01 am jeannevb: FYI, I posted a few links on our blog today that came up during EURO chat re: story vs plot www.scriptchat.com #scriptchat
12:01 am RickRapier: This oughta be goo - ood. RT @jeannevb: BRING IT.... I dare you... tonight, were talking Story vs Plot #scriptchat
12:02 am jeannevb: for me, the plot is the skeleton and the story is the veins, blood, tissue, muscle that makes the body HOT #scriptchat
12:02 am PennyAsh: what's the topic tonight? #scriptchat
12:02 am booksbelow: After initial confusion, I think I have the difference straight now. #scriptchat
12:02 am sunspotpictures: Good evening fellow #scriptchat -ers
12:02 am jeannevb: the story is what makes you feel... brings out the theme, the char flaws, the EMOTION #scriptchat
12:03 am jeannevb: Story vs Plot RT @PennyAsh: whats the topic tonight? #scriptchat
12:03 am authorViviAnna: Wheee! #scriptchat is on!!
12:03 am MJ_Slide: never mind, got it #scriptchat
12:03 am RickRapier: OK, g'night! RT @jeannevb: for me, the plot is the skeleton &the story the veins, blood, tissue, muscle that makes the body HOT #scriptchat
12:03 am jmiewald: Why make the distinction? #scriptchat
12:03 am GeneMarie1: Rearranged my schedule so I could be here today! Always miss it! Yay so glad to be home at 8:00! #scriptchat
12:04 am GeneMarie1: Fellow followers get ready for constant tweeting #scriptchat time!
12:04 am authorViviAnna: my tweeps, I apologize for all the screenwriting related tweets for the next hour, I do #scriptchat every week
12:04 am PennyAsh: @jeannevb Ah ha :) Story IS plot, you can't have one without the other #scriptchat
12:04 am GCGeek: Apologies to those following my stream. It's time for #Scriptchat!
12:04 am SaarduLady: I'm listening in. #scriptchat
12:04 am MJ_Slide: @GeneMarie1 yay for Gene #scriptchat
12:04 am RickRapier: Okay, why not? RT @jmiewald: Why make the distinction? #scriptchat
12:04 am jeannevb: here's a clip of Scorsese discussing diff btwn story/plot. Only 2minutes...http://bit.ly/9cxlBv #scriptchat
12:04 am booksbelow: In all the examples I read, the story can be summed up in much quicker than the plot, which is all cause and effect #scriptchat
12:04 am jeannevb: @RickRapier I like a hot story ;) #scriptchat
12:05 am PennyAsh: The story is the characters reactions to the events of the plot #scriptchat
12:05 am jmiewald: @RickRapier Because if you don't you can just take a nap. #scriptchat
12:05 am MJ_Slide: watching RT @jeannevb: heres a clip of Scorsese discussing diff btwn story/plot. Only 2minutes...http://bit.ly/9cxlBv #scriptchat
12:05 am sunspotpictures: RT @jeannevb: here's a clip of Scorsese discussing diff btwn story/plot. Only 2minutes...http://bit.ly/9cxlBv #scriptchat
12:05 am jeannevb: amen! RT @PennyAsh: The story is the characters reactions to the events of the plot #scriptchat
12:06 am JSterlingS: Isn't the plot what happens as the MC lives through his story? #scriptchat
12:06 am RickRapier: Jus' messin'. I like UR distinction... And UR explanation. ;) RT @jeannevb: @RickRapier I like a hot story ;) #scriptchat
12:06 am SaarduLady: sounds like semantics to me, going back to plotting my story ;) #scriptchat
12:06 am davidpbaker: RT @MJ_Slide: watching RT @jeannevb: heres a clip of Scorsese discussing diff btwn story/plot. Only 2minutes...http://bit.ly/9cxlBv #scriptchat
12:06 am jeannevb: the Scorsese clip is linked on our blog under the right sidebar section re: outline/theme/synopsis, etc #scriptchat
12:06 am authorViviAnna: to me story is WHAT the script is about, the plot is all the stuff that happens in the story #scriptchat
12:06 am MJ_Slide: I like Scorsese ;) #scriptchat
12:06 am booksbelow: You mean storying your plot! RT @SaarduLady: sounds like semantics to me, going back to plotting my story ;) #scriptchat
12:07 am jeannevb: me too... I think he'd be awesome directing Slavery ;) RT @MJ_Slide: I like Scorsese ;) #scriptchat
12:07 am MJ_Slide: for me I like to my characters before I get my plot. I build my plot around my characters...is that wrong? #scriptchat
12:07 am RickRapier: No suck up, I agree with @jeannevb . Many scripts could share a plot but not same story. Oft diff between orig & remakes. #scriptchat
12:07 am dizzydentfilms: Plot asks a question and story is when the protag answers it. #scriptchat
12:07 am MJ_Slide: @jeannevb Oh yeah I can totally see that #slaverybyanothername #scriptchat
12:07 am jeannevb: imp to remember the imp of THEME in your story. It comes out thru your characters journey/choices #scriptchat
12:07 am cinematicshot: #scriptchat plot is the sequence of events and story is the charcacter's journey, right?
12:07 am crintzs: ok, now that we've defined what's what - can we move to the "V" part? #scriptchat
12:08 am jeannevb: WOOT #scorseselove RT @MJ_Slide: @jeannevb Oh yeah I can totally see that #slaverybyanothername #scriptchat
12:08 am PennyAsh: @JSterlingS Plot is the bare bones, ie: three men try to beat each other to 200,000 in gold, story is how they do it #scriptchat
12:09 am RickRapier: Theme. Now to me that's the engine of all significant choices re: plot & story. Where the twain meet. #scriptchat
12:09 am jmiewald: Um, did anyone get Scorsese's distinction between story and plot from that clip? I didn't get it. #scriptchat
12:09 am booksbelow: story is what happens, plot is how it happens #scriptchat
12:09 am cmhoughton: For once I'm not doing something else during #scriptchat...
12:09 am jeannevb: If u pitch a producer the plot & the story doesnt meet his/her expectations, u'll get a pass. The story HAS to emotionally move #scriptchat
12:09 am Timsn: I have characters and an idea. Develop chars then tell story. Something like that #scriptchat
12:09 am crintzs: I'm all about the STORY. Good writing is about reactions. #scriptchat
12:10 am jeannevb: so in re: to the "VS" part of our topic, let's discuss how you turn a plot INTO a story #scriptchat
12:10 am RickRapier: Cheers. RT @booksbelow: story is what happens, plot is how it happens #scriptchat
12:10 am Timsn: Plot is outline story fills in the deets (theme, point of view, etc) #scriptchat
12:10 am PennyAsh: @MJ_Slide 2 kinds of story, plot driven & character driven. Sounds like you do character driven #scriptchat
12:10 am JSterlingS: @PennyAsh The way I look at it is the exact opposite. #scriptchat
12:10 am MJ_Slide: @Timsn thats how i do it. I like cool plot concepts but i never start there. i start with my characters :) #scriptchat
12:10 am Timsn: Now I need to learn stuff here:) #scriptchat
12:10 am jmiewald: There does come a point in which deconstruction fails and you have to go back to the idea that its an art, not a science. #scriptchat
12:10 am jeannevb: yep, the emotions RT @crintzs: Im all about the STORY. Good writing is about reactions. #scriptchat
12:10 am dizzydentfilms: @cinematicshot Si senior. #scriptchat
12:10 am ozzywood: Tryint to log into tweetchat but having difficulty ... #scriptchat
12:10 am GCGeek: I think of plot more as structure & story as the guts. What you walk away with. But I'm drinking Brooklyn lager; what do I know? #scriptchat
12:10 am MJ_Slide: @Timsn same here. sitting back for a few minutes and observing #scriptchat
12:11 am jeannevb: my process: 1. concept. 2. chars & flaws 3. outline/theme 4. synopsis. Writing synopsis, flushes out problems b4 writing script #scriptchat
12:11 am RickRapier: Nope. Let characters dictate & fail. RT @Timsn: I have characters & an idea. Develop chars then tell story. Something like that #scriptchat
12:11 am jeannevb: @ozzywood we're talking story vs plot #scriptchat
12:11 am Timsn: RT @jeannevb: yep, the emotions RT @crintzs: Im all about the STORY. Good writing is about reactions. #scriptchat
12:11 am ozzywood: Nice! RT @jeannevb: my process: 1. concept. 2. chars & flaws 3. outline/theme 4. synopsis. #scriptchat
12:11 am jeannevb: UGH!!! My Great Dane just BARFED & my other dog is EATING IT! ... yeah, there's a story in there... brb #scriptchat
12:11 am NevadaGrey: Story is the character's journey, etc.; plot is the way it's executed #scriptchat
12:11 am dizzydentfilms: Plot tries to engage intellectually but that's not how an audience responds. That's why you need story. #scriptchat
12:12 am RickRapier: Decide theme & plot to determine story. Then define characters to fulfill that aim. #scriptchat
12:12 am NevadaGrey: I agree @jeannevb - emotion is everything #scriptchat
12:12 am merrynell: Somebody once said that "Scorcese" is Italian for "big f*cking eyebrows" RT @MJ_Slide I like Scorsese ;) #scriptchat
12:12 am RickRapier: Si, si. RT @NevadaGrey: Story is the characters journey, etc.; plot is the way its executed #scriptchat
12:12 am ozzywood: Ultimately it all comes down to how one defines STORY. For me, it encompasses concept and plot and character. #scriptchat
12:12 am booksbelow: Nicely put! RT @NevadaGrey: Story is the characters journey, etc.; plot is the way its executed #scriptchat
12:12 am PennyAsh: @JSterlingS That's what makes this so much fun, you can go at it from any direction. I usually take a char & toss in events #scriptchat
12:12 am MJ_Slide: RT @merrynell: Somebody once said that "Scorcese" is Italian for "big f*cking eyebrows" RT @MJ_Slide I like Scorsese ;) HAHA #scriptchat
12:12 am NevadaGrey: Always remember too - there's a head plot and a heart plot #scriptchat
12:12 am GCGeek: @jeannevb Yes, Jeanne. But what was the first dog's motivation? #scriptchat
12:13 am ozzywood: RT @booksbelow: Nicely put! RT @NevadaGrey: Story is the characters journey, etc.; plot is the way its executed #scriptchat
12:13 am Timsn: I also have an outline before anything. RT @RickRapier: Nope. Let characters dictate & fail. #scriptchat
12:13 am NevadaGrey: @booksbelow tks :) #scriptchat
12:13 am RickRapier: Y not 2 have dog. ;) RT @jeannevb: UGH!! My Great Dane just BARFED & my other dog is EATING IT!.. yeah, theres a story in there #scriptchat
12:13 am yeah_write: lol RT @GCGeek: @jeannevb Yes, Jeanne. But what was the first dogs motivation? #scriptchat
12:13 am JSterlingS: RT @NevadaGrey: Story is the character's journey, etc.; plot is the way it's executed #scriptchat #storycraft
12:13 am MJ_Slide: this rangs very true for me. makes perfect sense! RT @NevadaGrey: Always remember too - theres a head plot and a heart plot #scriptchat
12:14 am ozzywood: There's 3!! Inner, Outer & Love Journey RT @NevadaGrey: Always remember too - theres a head plot and a heart plot #scriptchat
12:14 am authorViviAnna: RT @NevadaGrey: Story is the character's journey, etc.; plot is the way it's executed #scriptchat
12:14 am PennyAsh: @jmiewald I agree it's an art #scriptchat
12:14 am yeah_write: @RickRapier Actually, why to have 2 dogs. Just don't watch as one cleans up after the other or more sickness will ensue. #scriptchat
12:14 am Timsn: RT @NevadaGrey: Always remember too - there's a head plot and a heart plot #scriptchat
12:14 am ozzywood: EVERY great movie has all three ingrained in the concept: outer, inner & love story. #scriptchat
12:14 am RickRapier: To quote School House Rock: Three is the magic number. #scriptchat
12:14 am MJ_Slide: wow my grammar sucks "this rangs very true for me." and im not even drunk... #scriptchat
12:15 am dizzydentfilms: Ultimately, plot is of little importance, more of a mechanical contrivance against which characters come to life. #scriptchat
12:15 am cinematicshot: #scriptchat so plot is born out of story or vice versa?
12:15 am NevadaGrey: @ozzywood agreed, but it's easier & simpler for me to wrap my head around when writing if I think of these two basic concepts #scriptchat
12:15 am Timsn: Wouldn't the heart plot be the theme? Or am I totally confused? #scriptchat
12:15 am jeannevb: @GCGeek Big dog sounded like Chewbaka (or however u spell it) when he barfed HAHA #scriptchat
12:15 am crintzs: I don't think it's an art. I believe is work. Hard work. #scriptchat
12:15 am NevadaGrey: Plot is impt b/c it moves in sync w/ structure #scriptchat
12:15 am MJ_Slide: ME TOO! RT @Timsn: Wouldnt the heart plot be the theme? Or am I totally confused? #scriptchat
12:15 am GeneMarie1: @MJ_Slide Haha, thanks so much #scriptchat
12:16 am ozzywood: TOTALLY disagree. Check out the Toy Story movies. Or any Pixar. RT @dizzydentfilms: Ultimately, plot is of little importance. #scriptchat
12:16 am jeannevb: back... that was really gross #justsayin I may need a double shot of tequila now #scriptchat
12:16 am GCGeek: @jeannevb As told for my geeky heart. :-) Thank you. #scriptchat
12:16 am MJ_Slide: @crintzs Who said art isn't work? #scriptchat
12:16 am jmiewald: @crintzs Art and work are not opposites #scriptchat
12:16 am RickRapier: @yeah_write: If U don't have 1, U don't have to have the other to clean thngs up! #scriptchat
12:16 am yeah_write: I just have a story in my head, and I put it on paper, then I make sure I hit all the plot points and such. #scriptchat
12:16 am authorViviAnna: @cinematicshot I think a plot is totally born out of story #scriptchat
12:16 am booksbelow: Story can grab you, but if plot doesn't hang together still a fail! #scriptchat
12:16 am dizzydentfilms: Sorry, gotta go. My dog is chewing my chair. #scriptchat
12:16 am PennyAsh: Me too without it why do we even care about the plot? RT @NevadaGrey: I agree @jeannevb - emotion is everything #scriptchat
12:16 am ozzywood: Hard work can be art. RT @crintzs: I dont think its an art. I believe is work. Hard work. #scriptchat
12:17 am crintzs: You're right. I meant in a "magical" way. #scriptchat
12:17 am MJ_Slide: I think r discussion goes back to stucture...of which i have a love/hate relationship with. #scriptchat
12:17 am RickRapier: Can't have a movie without a plot. Ex. DINNER W/ANDRE is a one-act that someone filmed. Doesn't make it a movie. #scriptchat
12:17 am 4D4Films: RT @jeannevb: If you arent a fan of us on facebook, yet, plz join http://www.facebook.com/pages/ScriptChat/327209202689 #scriptchat
12:17 am MJ_Slide: @crintzs ah, makes sense. #scriptchat
12:17 am cinematicshot: #scriptchat Certain genres require more plot than others e.g. thrillers vs dramas
12:17 am eledrew: RT @RickRapier: Theme. Now to me that's the engine of all significant choices re: plot & story. Where the twain meet. #scriptchat
12:17 am marisabirns: @jeannevb Sorry I'm late. Dog refused to keep legs crossed so had to go out with her. #scriptchat
12:17 am yeah_write: @RickRapier True, but I love my dogs. No 1 else is nearly as happy when I get home after a long day, or come back after 2 min. #scriptchat
12:18 am ozzywood: I love this discussion! It's SOOOO chicken vs. egg! #scriptchat
12:18 am jeannevb: let's get into the how to take a plot & turn it into a story with emotion. My 1st step is defining char flaws & nec growth #scriptchat
12:18 am PennyAsh: @crintzs Ah but art is work. #scriptchat
12:18 am ozzywood: Only plot can bring out character in movies. Trust me. #scriptchat
12:18 am sunspotpictures: Plot = What happens? This is pretty tangible. Also more like fate. #scriptchat
12:18 am crintzs: RT @ozzywood: I love this discussion! Its SOOOO chicken vs. egg! #scriptchat
12:18 am NevadaGrey: True! RT @cinematicshot: #scriptchat Certain genres require more plot than others e.g. thrillers vs dramas #scriptchat
12:18 am ozzywood: Well, don't trust me. Watch and analyse all great movies. ;) #scriptchat
12:18 am jeannevb: *giggle* RT @ozzywood: I love this discussion! Its SOOOO chicken vs. egg! #scriptchat
12:18 am MJ_Slide: RT @NevadaGrey: True! RT @cinematicshot: #scriptchat Certain genres require more plot than others e.g. thrillers vs dramas #scriptchat
12:18 am sunspotpictures: RT @ozzywood: Only plot can bring out character in movies. Trust me. #scriptchat
12:19 am eledrew: "For the most part, theme determines character and then on to plot." - Rod Serling #scriptchat
12:19 am RickRapier: Didn't U hate MARLEY & ME? RT @yeah_write: True, but I love my dogs. #scriptchat
12:19 am ozzywood: RT @jeannevb: how to take a plot & turn it into a story w/ emotion. 1st step is defining char flaws & nec growth #scriptchat
12:19 am sunspotpictures: Plot facilitates change. RT @ozzywood: Only plot can bring out character in movies. Trust me. #scriptchat
12:20 am cinematicshot: #scriptchat The more the character needs the goal, the more she risks and sacrifices, the more emotional the story.
12:20 am GeneMarie1: I agree .RT - @ozzywood Ultimately it all comes down to how one defines STORY. For me, it encompasses concept, plot & character. #scriptchat
12:20 am ozzywood: Just watched UP IN THE AIR. The emotion didn't work for many because the plot wasn't executed properly at the end. #scriptchat
12:20 am yeah_write: Didn't watch it. I don't like to cry at movies. RT @RickRapier: Didnt U hate MARLEY & ME? #scriptchat
12:20 am authorViviAnna: I write scripts the same way I write my books, start with characters and figure out what they want and how to get it #scriptchat
12:20 am ozzywood: RT @sunspotpictures: Plot facilitates change. RT @ozzywood: Only plot can bring out character in movies. #scriptchat
12:20 am NevadaGrey: Plot contains obstacles and twists and turns, for example; how specific character deals w/ these helps define the story #scriptchat
12:20 am jbonnell: By definition, story is a series of events recorded in chronilogical order, there for Momento would not be a story. #scriptchat
12:20 am RickRapier: I love it too but it's not chicken v. egg in scrnwrtg. RT @ozzywood: I love this discussion! Its SOOOO chicken vs. egg! #scriptchat
12:20 am booksbelow: Interested who thinks which comes first story/plot RT @ozzywood: I love this discussion! Its SOOOO chicken vs. egg! #scriptchat
12:21 am WriterChanelle: *creeping in* #scriptchat
12:21 am yeah_write: RT @ozzywood: Just watched UP IN THE AIR. The emotion didnt work for many because the plot wasnt executed properly at the end. #scriptchat
12:21 am ozzywood: RT @cinematicshot: #scriptchat The more the character FIGHTS FOR the goal, the more she risks & sacrifices, the more emotional. #scriptchat
12:21 am RickRapier: Don't. See. It. RT @yeah_write: Didnt watch it. I dont like to cry at movies. RT @RickRapier: Didnt U hate MARLEY & ME? #scriptchat
12:21 am jbonnell: Plot, though is a series of events deliberately arranged so as to reveal their dramatic, thematic, and emotional significance #scriptchat
12:21 am crintzs: I guess it depends of the telling - a minimal plot demands LOTS of story, and a ACTION plot kind of drives itself, right? #scriptchat
12:21 am cinematicshot: RT @authorViviAnna: I write scripts the same way I write my books, start with characters and figure out what they want and how to get it #scriptchat
12:21 am PennyAsh: @jeannevb I take an idea like train robbing, then start playing the what if game :) #scriptchat
12:21 am jeannevb: just an fyi, we'll do THEME another night as a topic #scriptchat
12:21 am sunspotpictures: @ozzywood How so? #scriptchat
12:22 am authorViviAnna: @ozzywood I hated the ending of UP IN THE AIR, it was so flat #scriptchat
12:22 am ozzywood: YES!! RT @jeannevb: just an fyi, well do THEME another night as a topic #scriptchat
12:22 am yeah_write: Yes! Exactly! RT @PennyAsh: @jeannevb I take an idea like train robbing, then start playing the what if game :) #scriptchat
12:22 am cinematicshot: @ozzywood I like that #scriptchat
12:23 am sunspotpictures: @ozzywood (RE: Up in the Air) #scriptchat
12:23 am NevadaGrey: RT @cinematicshot: #scriptchat The more the character FIGHTS FOR the goal, the more she risks & sacrifices, the more emotional. #scriptchat
12:23 am PennyAsh: @yeah_write :D I love what if #scriptchat
12:23 am cinematicshot: RT @jbonnell: Plot, though is a series of events deliberately arranged so as to reveal their dramatic, thematic, and emotional significance #scriptchat
12:23 am RickRapier: Novels & screenplays are drastically different & novelists often miss why that is. Gr8 novelists often make terrible scrnwrtrs. #scriptchat
12:23 am Timsn: Dale Launer (My Cousin Vinny) has a gr8 website on how he writes #scriptchat
12:23 am crintzs: Do you guys like Robert McKee? #scriptchat
12:23 am MJ_Slide: i guess im just gonna sit back and listen. I've got a lot to learn. :) #scriptchat
12:23 am ozzywood: @sunspotpictures in reference to what? (just RT and quote a few words - helps) #scriptchat
12:24 am eledrew: The greater the stakes for the character, the greater the obstacles must be. #scriptchat
12:24 am jeannevb: using char dev helps move plot to story. We have link to @scripteach char dev worksheet & TONS of other char dev links in blog #scriptchat
12:24 am christakeizer: Following #scriptchat. Wish I knew about it when I was writing a film treatment for my Story Structure class. #rtvf350
12:24 am MJ_Slide: @crintzs no. #scriptchat
12:24 am jmiewald: @crintzs I like McKee for his frankness. #scriptchat
12:24 am RickRapier: Never met him. barum-bump RT @crintzs: Do you guys like Robert McKee? #scriptchat
12:24 am ozzywood: McKee ironically doesn't talk much about STORY. He's a former actor, great at SCENES RT @crintzs: Do you guys like Robert McKee? #scriptchat
12:24 am yeah_write: We all have a lot to learn. :-) RT @MJ_Slide: i guess im just gonna sit back and listen. Ive got a lot to learn. :) #scriptchat
12:24 am ReelyBored: RT @authorViviAnna: I write scripts the same way I write my books, start with characters and figure out what they want and how to get it #scriptchat
12:25 am jeannevb: going to post a couple of links I put up on blog today re: story vs plot... #scriptchat
12:25 am Timsn: I do that a lot! RT @MJ_Slide: i guess im just gonna sit back and listen. I've got a lot to learn. :) #scriptchat
12:25 am sdarancette: hey #scriptchat. Sorry to be late in the game. Will be lurking in the lounge. My wifi is wonky and unreliable today.
12:25 am MJ_Slide: @crintzs let me rephrase that. I don't like Mckee as a person but he knows his screenwriting #scriptchat
12:25 am Timsn: This chat is like a masters class in sceenwriting #scriptchat
12:26 am jeannevb: Plot vs Story via @JLichtenberg http://bit.ly/aGRCRL #scriptchat (linked on our blog)
12:26 am jmiewald: Oh I have a topic suggestion: Let's review a script of someone in Scriptchat. :) #scriptchat
12:26 am ozzywood: @sunspotpictures Check out my latest on http://bit.ly/tsdUS. #scriptchat
12:26 am Defenestrator1: #scriptchat don't get too boged down in the science of plot v. story and tell a rippin' good yarn.
12:26 am MJ_Slide: @Timsn yep...FREE SCREENWRITING CLASS! #scriptchat
12:26 am jeannevb: I"ll try to remember to remind u ;) RT @ozzywood: YES!! RT @jeannevb: just an fyi, well do THEME another night as a topic #scriptchat
12:26 am thatwritingchic: Glad some1 FINALLY said that! RT @ozzywood: McKee ironically doesn't talk much about STORY. He's a former actor, great at SCENES #scriptchat
12:26 am crintzs: @MJ_Slide ok, got it. I don't personally know him, but I see your point. ;-/ #scriptchat
12:26 am ozzywood: http://bit.ly/d36Ikw RT @RickRapier: Novels & screenplays are drastically different. #scriptchat
12:26 am WriterChanelle: @ozzywood Dumb question: don't the scenes make up the story? #scriptchat
12:26 am sunspotpictures: @crintzs I like Brian Cox playing Robert McKee ;) #scriptchat
12:27 am jeannevb: How to Use Theme as an Art via @JLichtenberg http://bit.ly/cOLrJW #scriptchat (linked on blog)
12:27 am ozzywood: Truly, he's very weak on story structure. RT @MJ_Slide: @crintzs I dont like Mckee as a person but he knows his screenwriting #scriptchat
12:27 am crintzs: RT @sunspotpictures: @crintzs I like Brian Cox playing Robert McKee ;) #scriptchat
12:28 am jeannevb: and again, the Scorsese clip http://bit.ly/9cxlBv (linked on #scriptchat blog) www.scriptchat.com
12:28 am crintzs: @ozzywood tell me more... #scriptchat
12:28 am scripteach: RT @jeannevb: Plot vs Story #scriptchat Plot is the story told by the characters' quest to achieve their goals.
12:28 am ozzywood: Not dumb. Check out Ozzy films. Great scenes. Crap stories. Works for TV RT @WriterChanelle: dont the scenes make up the story? #scriptchat
12:28 am jeannevb: #scriptchat RT @LeeAnnPrice: @jeannevb - I like to show the world my character lives in and how they fit & don't in it
12:28 am jbonnell: Here here. RT @RickRapier: Novels & screenplays are drastically different & novelists often miss why that is. #scriptchat
12:28 am MJ_Slide: @ozzywood only watched a couple vids, never went to any of his sessions... #scriptchat
12:29 am NevadaGrey: RT @scripteach: RT @jeannevb: Plot vs Story #scriptchat Plot is the story told by the characters quest to achieve their goals. #scriptchat
12:29 am jeannevb: WOOHOO @scripteach is IN THE HOUSE :) #scriptchat
12:29 am karlabry: @ozzywood Critical point with McKee. With me, scenes are always stronger than plot. Working on greater balance. #scriptchat
12:29 am ozzywood: @crintzs McKee has some gems about subtext, POV, dialogue, beats, etc. His story structure ends at the 3 Acts. Very poor. #scriptchat
12:29 am jeannevb: @NevadaGrey *waves* i need to read this transcript haha #cantkeepupwithpukingdogs #scriptchat
12:29 am PennyAsh: @ozzywood I dis agree, novels and screenplays really only differ in amount of detail and format #scriptchat
12:29 am jbonnell: Plot is the crafted presentation of the story. Story is the journey the character took. Plot is how we experience it. #scriptchat
12:30 am MJ_Slide: WOOTNESS! RT @jeannevb: WOOHOO @scripteach is IN THE HOUSE :) #scriptchat
12:30 am jeannevb: @ozzywood I went to McKee's STORY seminar. Totally agree w u. He was all about scenes... and an asshole #justsayin ;) #scriptchat
12:30 am NevadaGrey: @jeannevb Hey Jeanne!!! lol! :) #scriptchat
12:30 am crintzs: @MJ_Slide: @ozzywood Just spent 4 days on his lectures... It's like listening the book - exact same thing. #scriptchat
12:30 am RickRapier: I just started thinking of movies that are exceptions to my rubric. How fun. Esp. w/scripts by Richard Curtis. #scriptchat
12:30 am ozzywood: I know only Stephen Gaghan who can do that. For limited audience. RT @karlabry: @ozzywood scenes are always stronger than plot. #scriptchat
12:31 am sunspotpictures: RT @ozzywood: @sunspotpictures Check out my latest (Up In the Air Review) on http://bit.ly/tsdUS. #scriptchat
12:31 am jbonnell: Novels and Screenplays are told from two completely different perspectives. One is more internal than the other. #scriptchat
12:31 am RickRapier: Write novels by any chance? RT @ozzywood I dis agree, novels and screenplays really only differ in amount of detail and format #scriptchat
12:31 am MJ_Slide: @crintzs good. read the book. wont waste my money on a seminar. #scriptchat
12:31 am thescriptlab: RT true... novelists have so much more freedom. @RickRapier: Novels & screenplays are drastically different #scriptchat
12:31 am MJ_Slide: RT @jbonnell: Novels and Screenplays are told from two completely different perspectives. One is more internal than the other. #scriptchat
12:31 am Timsn: Dale Launer's writing cheats and tricks http://bit.ly/bq4GLT #scriptchat
12:32 am ozzywood: True. Great fun tho! He's good on scribe life. RT @crintzs: @MJ_Slide: spent 4 days on his lectures... book - exact same thing. #scriptchat
12:32 am crintzs: @ozzywood do you like any book on screenwriting? #scriptchat
12:32 am LeeAnnPrice: @jeannevb And how the world changes as the character does & we see how he/she's grown in and/or out of it #scriptchat
12:32 am MJ_Slide: RT @crintzs: @ozzywood do you like any book on screenwriting? #scriptchat
12:32 am yeah_write: @jbonnell I'm judging a screenplay contest, and I have entries that are so internal, they are obviously written by novelists. #scriptchat
12:32 am jeannevb: @ozzywood do u have any structure links I can add to the blog? #scriptchat
12:32 am PennyAsh: @RickRapier Actually write both :) #scriptchat
12:32 am RickRapier: RT @jbonnell Im judging a screenplay contest, and I have entries that are so internal, they are obviously written by novelists. #scriptchat
12:33 am cinematicshot: @PennyAsh I disagree :) Novels are much larger in scale. Short stories are more like movies #scriptchat
12:33 am ozzywood: Will do whole series on my fave (Lavandier) soon on http://bit.ly/tsdUS RT @crintzs: @ozzywood like any book on screenwriting? #scriptchat
12:33 am jeannevb: @yeah_write wish I had time to help u judging! Do u have a lot left? #scriptchat
12:33 am MJ_Slide: one rule of screenwriting. dont write what the character is thinking. some VO is exception. *shrug* #scriptchat
12:33 am cinematicshot: RT @jbonnell: Novels and Screenplays are told from two completely different perspectives. One is more internal than the other. #scriptchat
12:33 am sunspotpictures: @ozzywood To me ending of Up In the Air is what made it above average. Rather than growing, character beliefs are uprooted #scriptchat
12:33 am jbonnell: @RickRapier I've judged a few screenplay contests myself. You can tell by page 5 if they know what they are doing or not. #scriptchat
12:34 am yeah_write: Only 2 to go. 1 was awesome. RT @jeannevb: @yeah_write wish I had time to help u judging! Do u have a lot left? #scriptchat
12:34 am ozzywood: Biggest difference: dramatic structure. RT @RickRapier: novels and screenplays really only differ in amount of detail and format #scriptchat
12:34 am NevadaGrey: Novels & screenplays also differ b/c in novels there's a lot of reflection, which you can't write in a screenplay #scriptchat
12:34 am sunspotpictures: @ozzywood Of course that may not be the best selling point for a film, as you mentioned... #scriptchat
12:34 am RickRapier: I argued w/professor on same point. RT @PennyAsh Novels are much larger in scale. Short stories are more like movies #scriptchat
12:34 am jeannevb: cool RT @yeah_write: Only 2 to go. 1 was awesome. RT @jeannevb: @yeah_write wish I had time to help u judging! #scriptchat
12:34 am PennyAsh: @cinematicshot I'll concede that :) #scriptchat
12:34 am crintzs: about McKee - yeah read the book. It's like 25 times cheaper and it won't complain if you eventually toss or have to pee. #scriptchat
12:34 am dizzydentfilms: When asked what should be in a screenplay, Wilder said: INT, EXT, DAY , NIGHT. That's it. #scriptchat
12:35 am RickRapier: @ozzywood Biggest difference, perhaps, but they differ on many fronts. #scriptchat
12:35 am yeah_write: @MJ_Slide VO is a cop out, and a sign of a novice, unless done VERY well. #scriptchat
12:35 am jeannevb: only half way thru & we've switched topic to novel vs screenplay...um... #crackswhip ;) #ineedmoretequila #scriptchat
12:35 am karlabry: @ozzywood Hard to keep things at140 characters!Meant that *I* have a problem writing scenes that r stronger than plots.Must fix. #scriptchat
12:35 am crintzs: RT @dizzydentfilms: When asked what should be in a screenplay, Wilder said: INT, EXT, DAY , NIGHT. Thats it. #scriptchat
12:35 am MJ_Slide: @crintzs or cuss you out. ;) #scriptchat
12:35 am cinematicshot: RT @crintzs: about McKee - yeah read the book. It's like 25 times cheaper and it won't complain if you eventually toss or have to pee. #scriptchat
12:35 am RickRapier: From a gr8 scrnwrter RT @dizzydentfilms:When asked what should be in a screenplay, Wilder said: INT, EXT, DAY , NIGHT. Thats it. #scriptchat
12:35 am booksbelow: RT @jeannevb: only half way thru & weve switched topic to novel vs screenplay...um... #crackswhip ;) #ineedmoretequila #scriptchat
12:35 am jeannevb: but u see it in SO many films RT @yeah_write: @MJ_Slide VO is a cop out, and a sign of a novice, unless done VERY well. #scriptchat
12:35 am PennyAsh: @RickRapier The point is both are telling a story, just in different ways. Crafting the story is the same #scriptchat
12:36 am sdarancette: it's hard to say at least for me other then saying its semantics what the dif is btwn plot and story. #scriptchat
12:36 am MJ_Slide: @yeah_write i agree. VO is a crutch for a lot of new writers. Sarah Connor VO are what i consider an exception :) #scriptchat
12:36 am LifesizeLD: The reverse is true too. RT @RickRapier: Novels & screenplays are drastically different & novelists often miss why that is. #scriptchat
12:36 am RickRapier: Very related, I think RT @jeannevb: only half way thru & weve switched topic to novel vs screenplay...um... #crackswhip ;) #scriptchat
12:36 am jbonnell: @yeah_write I hate the labels slapped on screenplays "VO is a cop out" "Flashbacks are horrible". If it works, it works, damnit. #scriptchat
12:36 am ozzywood: RT @cinematicshot: RT @crintzs: McKee: read the book. 25 times cheaper & it wont complain if you eventually toss or have to pee. #scriptchat
12:37 am WriterChanelle: @ozzywood Would that be why Seinfeld worked? Great scenes? @cinematicshot #scriptchat
12:37 am LifesizeLD: Wrote a novel once based on a script, surprisingly HARD WORK! #scriptchat
12:37 am Timsn: Why is the book usually better than the movie ? :P #scriptchat
12:37 am NevadaGrey: @LifesizeLD I agree - I had a hard time w/ fiction #scriptchat
12:37 am jeannevb: fyi @RickRapier, @PennyAsh is a novelist and also a screenwriter... she's got the diff'c down ;) Plus she has other talents2 ha #scriptchat
12:37 am thescriptlab: @RickRapier the biggest diff btwn them is a script needs to be entirely visual, all must be seen. novels don't have that limit #scriptchat
12:37 am crintzs: @LifesizeLD Yeah, sure. But more often is the novelist that don't get the fundamental difference. #scriptchat
12:37 am MJ_Slide: @jbonnell a lot of times it is. Ive found myself using VO because i didnt want to work at it. I dont do that anymore #scriptchat
12:37 am PennyAsh: @jeannevb VO works in the Dexter series because it's the mc's internal thoughts #scriptchat
12:37 am RickRapier: So do poetry & journalism. Point? RT @PennyAsh:Both are telling a story, just in different ways. Crafting the story is the same #scriptchat
12:37 am ozzywood: DO SOME DAMAGE blog had gd article. RT @LifesizeLD: The reverse is true too. RT @RickRapier: novelists often miss why that is. #scriptchat
12:37 am sunspotpictures: I think you can but it must be conveyed visually RT @NevadaGrey novels have lots of reflection which you cant write in screenply #scriptchat
12:37 am ozzywood: RT @LifesizeLD: Wrote a novel once based on a script, surprisingly HARD WORK! #scriptchat
12:37 am yeah_write: @jbonnell VO can be great if done well, but novices usually don't do it well, flashback are the same. #scriptchat
12:38 am crintzs: RT @Timsn: Why is the book usually better than the movie ? :P --- It's not. It's just NOT THE SAME thing. #scriptchat
12:38 am sdarancette: When I met Robert Mckee it was two great screenwriters meeting finally. I remember asking him "Would you like fries with that?" #scriptchat
12:38 am NevadaGrey: b/c u only have 110 pgs to tell a 400 pg story :) RT @Timsn: Why is the book usually better than the movie ? :P #scriptchat
12:38 am jeannevb: @PennyAsh and VO worked in Shawshank. There are def films it works in #scriptchat
12:38 am booksbelow: @sdarancette Defining terms is the only way to avoid confusion. plot and story are different, but co-dependant #scriptchat
12:38 am jeannevb: @booksbelow *waves* ;) #crackswhip #ineedmoretequila #scriptchat
12:38 am jbonnell: Because you can fill it in your mind instead of being told/shown what its like. RT @Timsn: Why is the book usually better... #scriptchat
12:38 am crintzs: RT @yeah_write: @jbonnell VO can be great, but novices usually dont do it well, flashback are the same. - Easy way out! #scriptchat
12:38 am RickRapier: I think its poss to write novels & screenplays, but not if U don't know the differences in the media. #scriptchat
12:38 am talented_boy: so what am i missing folks? what are we talking about? (Lakers are playing so i'm just joining) #scriptchat
12:38 am dizzydentfilms: Here are Wilder's tips: http://dizzydentfilms.blogspot.com/2009/11/wilders-eleven-tips-on-screenwriting.html #scriptchat
12:38 am NevadaGrey: @sunspotpictures exactly - gotta find the objective correlative, which can be challenging! #scriptchat
12:38 am MJ_Slide: wow, we r all sooo off topic...how many ppl r drinking right now? #scriptchat
12:39 am karlabry: RT @ozzywood: RT @cinematicshot: RT @crintzs: McKee: read the book. 25 times cheaper & it wont complain if you eventually toss or have to pee. #scriptchat
12:39 am LifesizeLD: @jeannevb What did YOU think the topic was? Ha ha! #scriptchat
12:39 am jeannevb: char dev not only helps story but conveys theme. Analyze ur char like ur a shrink! #scriptchat
12:39 am GCGeek: What I'm hearing: A great story with poor plot/execution: fail. Vice versa: fail. Must be great story with great plot/execution. #scriptchat
12:39 am MJ_Slide: RT @MJ_Slide: wow, we r all sooo off topic...how many ppl r drinking right now? #scriptchat
12:39 am jeannevb: surprisingly, NOT ME! ;( RT @MJ_Slide: wow, we r all sooo off topic...how many ppl r drinking right now? #scriptchat
12:39 am PennyAsh: @jeannevb I knew it would get out about the spurs... #scriptchat
12:39 am crintzs: RT @dizzydentfilms: Wilders tips: http://dizzydentfilms.blogspot.com/2009/11/wilders-eleven-tips-on-screenwriting.html GREAT #scriptchat
12:39 am ozzywood: But you need either Morgan Freeman or James Earl Jones! ;) RT @jeannevb: @PennyAsh and VO worked in Shawshank. #scriptchat
12:39 am RickRapier: I disagree. It helps understand plot v story. RT @MJ_Slide: wow, we r all sooo off topic...how many ppl r drinking right now? #scriptchat
12:39 am sunspotpictures: @NevadaGrey Yes! You certainly can't do it as directly... but that's where the real strength of the medium really comes out. #scriptchat
12:39 am jeannevb: ha it's SUPPOSED to be story vs plot RT @LifesizeLD: @jeannevb What did YOU think the topic was? Ha ha! #scriptchat
12:40 am jeannevb: i'd pay to watch them recite the phone book ha RT @ozzywood: But you need either Morgan Freeman or James Earl Jones! ;) #scriptchat
12:40 am GCGeek: @jeannevb :-( Tequilas: good. McKee-las: bad. #scriptchat
12:40 am ozzywood: Can anyone give me a workable definition of story? Challenge of the night! #scriptchat
12:40 am MJ_Slide: well im being summoned. peace and ill read the transcript tomorrow morning. :) GET BACK ON TOPIC. lol #scriptchat
12:40 am PennyAsh: @RickRapier The point is the different way is the format of the story you're trying to tell :) The telling is the same #scriptchat
12:40 am NevadaGrey: @sunspotpictures so true! #scriptchat
12:40 am karlabry: Wonder which is harder script->novel? RT @ozzywood: RT@LifesizeLD: Wrote a novel once based on a script, surprisinglyHARD WORK! #scriptchat
12:40 am cinematicshot: #scriptchat What defines a great story? Besides a beg, mid, and end, that is.
12:40 am scriptdreric: VO to me is like a triple Lutz: If you don't have the immense skill to pull it off, you'll probably land on your butt. #scriptchat
12:40 am sdarancette: @jeannevb surprisingly I am stone sober. Wait, does beer count? #scriptchat
12:40 am thescriptlab: Totally! http://bit.ly/cJtS6g RT @jeannevb: char dev not only helps story but conveys theme. Analyze ur char like ur a shrink! #scriptchat
12:40 am crintzs: RT @ozzywood: Can anyone give me a workable definition of story? Challenge of the night! #scriptchat
12:40 am jyesmith: RT @ozzywood: Can anyone give me a workable definition of story? Challenge of the night! #scriptchat
12:41 am jeannevb: RT @ozzywood: Can anyone give me a workable definition of story? Challenge of the night! #scriptchat
12:41 am PennyAsh: @jeannevb Yep, VO has to be done just right #scriptchat
12:41 am jmiewald: @ozzywood A floor or level of a building. #scriptchat
12:41 am ScriptScribbler: @sdarancette yes... ;) #scriptchat
12:41 am sdarancette: So are we all saying this #scriptchat has "lost the plot?" ;0
12:41 am PennyAsh: @ozzywood Definitely :) both have wonderful voices #scriptchat
12:41 am LifesizeLD: Just a snark-plug... RT @SnarkTheReader: Today's Nugget: Stakes. Not steaks, but motive. http://bit.ly/a9gMay #scriptchat
12:41 am jeannevb: have to get up at 4am to catch a train to NYC ;( RT @sdarancette: @jeannevb surprisingly I'm stone sober. Wait, does beer count? #scriptchat
12:41 am LilPeep2U: RT @scriptdreric: VO to me is like a triple Lutz: If you don't have the immense skill to pull it off, you'll probably land on your butt. #scriptchat
12:41 am ozzywood: RT @sdarancette: So are we all saying this #scriptchat has "lost the plot?" ;0 #scriptchat
12:41 am booksbelow: Good one (def of story) RT @jmiewald: @ozzywood A floor or level of a building. #scriptchat
12:42 am crintzs: @ozzywood A telling with a meaning?? #scriptchat
12:42 am PennyAsh: @ozzywood A story is the relating of an incident and the reactions of those it happens to #scriptchat
12:42 am cinematicshot: ?@sdarancette: So are we all saying this #scriptchat has "lost the plot?" ;0? and story!
12:42 am ozzywood: Different people have different definitions of story, depending on their tastes. Some include character change, others don't. #scriptchat
12:42 am ReelyBored: @cinematicshot #scriptchat substance and a characters journey from point A to B where there is some sort of change, positive or negative
12:42 am thescriptlab: @ozzywood a story tells the tale of an interesting character who wants something badly and is having trouble getting it. #scriptchat
12:42 am jbonnell: @sdarancette No, the plot remains the same... the story just changed. #scriptchat
12:42 am booksbelow: story is what it's about, the plot is how it happens? #scriptchat
12:43 am jeannevb: @ozzywood Story is how chars react to the plot that moves viewer emotionally & gives char growth #scriptchat
12:43 am karlabry: But, strong tweets! ;) RT @ozzywood: RT @sdarancette: So are we all saying this #scriptchat has "lost the plot?" ;0 #scriptchat
12:43 am RickRapier: @PennyAsh Formatting is the only difference between a novel and a script??? Let's move on. ;^) #scriptchat
12:43 am jeannevb: @ what char is willing to risk to get it RT @thescriptlab: @ozzywood story tells tale of an int character who wants something #scriptchat
12:43 am PennyAsh: @ozzywood A lot depends on genre as well #scriptchat
12:43 am jmiewald: Plot is simply story that doesn't quite work. #scriptchat
12:44 am ozzywood: NOW define "INTERESTING" RT @thescriptlab: an interesting character who wants something badly and is having trouble getting it. #scriptchat
12:44 am jeannevb: PLOT= #scriptchat topic STORY= what we drunkards do w the topic
12:44 am ruminski: @ozzywood interesting to follow your #scriptchat comments... ultimately, though, bad writers can follow all of the rules and still be awful
12:44 am ozzywood: HAHAHAHAA!!!! RT @jmiewald: Plot is simply story that doesnt quite work. #scriptchat
12:45 am PennyAsh: @RickRapier Forest for the trees :) #scriptchat
12:45 am thescriptlab: @ozzywood ha, now we'll need to have a semantical argument about "taste" #scriptchat
12:45 am jbonnell: @jeannevb Nope, you got that backward. #scriptchat
12:45 am RickRapier: The reason I tweeted "OK, g'night" earlier was that I thought the difference was nailed by @jeannevb right off the bat. #scriptchat
12:45 am crintzs: Story = Paycheck #scriptchat
12:45 am ozzywood: True. Structure we learn from study. Character from life. RT @ruminski: bad writers can follow all of the rules & still be awful #scriptchat
12:45 am talented_boy: this was the wrong night to come into this joint late...i have no idea what you folks are talking about lol #scriptchat
12:46 am ozzywood: RT @crintzs: Story = Paycheck #scriptchat
12:46 am thescriptlab: @PennyAsh your forest has trees? #scriptchat
12:46 am RickRapier: RT @jeannevb: for me, the plot is the skeleton &the story the veins, blood, tissue, muscle that makes the body HOT #scriptchat
12:46 am crintzs: RT @ozzywood: True. Structure we learn from study. Character from life. #scriptchat
12:46 am sunspotpictures: It's like poetry fitting all that into 110 pages! RT @NevadaGrey: b/c u only have 110 pgs to tell a 400 pg story :) @Timsn #scriptchat
12:46 am PennyAsh: Yep :) RT @jeannevb: PLOT= #scriptchat topic STORY= what we drunkards do w the topic
12:46 am jeannevb: @talented_boy story vs plot ;) #scriptchat
12:46 am WriterChanelle: @talented_boy Plot and Story #scriptchat
12:46 am LifesizeLD: @Crintzs Why? Having done both, I think they're so very different, neither side can fully appreciate the other wo/trying it. #scriptchat
12:46 am NevadaGrey: Ooo, I like that RT @ozzywood True. Structure we learn from study. Character from life. #scriptchat
12:46 am ozzywood: RT @RickRapier: RT @jeannevb: plot is the skeleton &the story the veins, blood, tissue, muscle that makes the body HOT #scriptchat
12:46 am jeannevb: @RickRapier *curtsy* #scriptchat
12:46 am scriptdreric: @ruminski Indeed. I believe Stephen King said you can't make a bad writer good, but you can make a good writer great. #scriptchat
12:47 am ThiagoDottori: First time here. Nice to see you in a multiplot topic #scriptchat
12:47 am WriterChanelle: @talented_boy I'm just reading along #scriptchat
12:47 am jbonnell: Story is what the character experiences. Plot is how the audience experiences the character's story. #scriptchat
12:47 am jeannevb: me too! RT @NevadaGrey: Ooo, I like that RT @ozzywood True. Structure we learn from study. Character from life. #scriptchat
12:47 am PennyAsh: Ooo I like that definition best :) RT @crintzs: Story = Paycheck #scriptchat
12:47 am LifesizeLD: @jeannevb Ooh! That's too hard! #scriptchat (Ha ha!)
12:47 am PennyAsh: @TheScriptLab Yep lots of them :) #scriptchat
12:47 am booksbelow: RT @jbonnell: Story is what the character experiences. Plot is how the audience experiences the characters story. #scriptchat
12:48 am ozzywood: Use it. But with the (c), please! ;) RT @NevadaGrey: Ooo, I like that RT Structure we learn from study. Character from life. #scriptchat
12:48 am DoubleNW: Hi #scriptchat Tweeps :) Just came through 2 say a quick hi. I'm actually working on the treatment 4 1 of scripts. Have a good night!!
12:48 am RickRapier: I swear there must be solar flares freaking out my wireless router. :) #scriptchat
12:48 am sdarancette: You dig a plot then bury a story in it. #scriptchat.
12:48 am NevadaGrey: Yes, that's exactly how I think of it :) RT @sunspotpictures It's like poetry fitting all that into 110 pages! #scriptchat
12:48 am jeannevb: @ThiagoDottori welcome! chk out our blog too for resources & past transcripts www.scriptchat.com :) #scriptchat
12:48 am ozzywood: RT @sdarancette: You dig a plot then bury a story in it. #scriptchat. #scriptchat
12:48 am DoubleNW: Hi #scriptchat Tweeps :) Just came through 2 say a quick hi. I'm actually working on the treatment 4 1 of my scripts. Have a good night!
12:48 am ThiagoDottori: maybe it's a good way to think about plot and story. how does it works in an magnolia? #scriptchat
12:48 am cinematicshot: #scriptchat Plot and story sitting in a tree ...
12:48 am scriptdreric: @thiagodottori Yes, it's American Beauty night at #scriptchat, apparently... :)
12:49 am marisabirns: Story is what's it about. Plot is what happens. Yes? #scriptchat
12:49 am yeah_write: I see it the other way, dig story and bury the plot. RT @sdarancette: You dig a plot then bury a story in it. #scriptchat.
12:49 am crintzs: RT @cinematicshot: #scriptchat Plot and story sitting in a tree ... #scriptchat
12:49 am jeannevb: @DoubleNW good luck! Thx for popping in :) #scriptchat
12:49 am Timsn: RT @ozzywood: RT @sdarancette: You dig a plot then bury a story in it. #scriptchat. #scriptchat
12:49 am karlabry: Plot gives the audience their reason to stay there. #scriptchat
12:49 am Anythinghorror: RT @4D4Films RT @jeannevb: If you arent a fan yet join us on facebook plz http://www.facebook.com/pages/ScriptChat/327209202689 #scriptchat
12:49 am RickRapier: What the hell is Fail Code 403??? #scriptchat Can't tweet thru TweetChat for 5 mins.
12:49 am LifesizeLD: RT @ozzywood: RT @sdarancette: You dig a plot then bury a story in it. #scriptchat. #scriptchat
12:49 am authorViviAnna: I like that @sdarancette You dig a plot then bury a story in it. #scriptchat.
12:50 am RickRapier: RT @jeannevb: for me, the plot is the skeleton &the story the veins, blood, tissue, muscle that makes the body HOT #scriptchat
12:50 am Psycho_kumori: RT @thescriptlab: RT true... novelists have so much more freedom. @RickRapier: Novels & screenplays are drastically different #scriptchat
12:50 am NevadaGrey: Plot points are the smaller increments of structure #scriptchat
12:50 am jeannevb: @Anythinghorror @4D4Films thx for the FB fan link reminder! #scriptchat
12:50 am crintzs: RT @karlabry I don't think so. I can foresee most of it. Reactions keep me interested. #scriptchat
12:50 am yeah_write: The ticket buyer doesn't want to know there's a plot, they just want a good story. Plot helps tell the story. #scriptchat
12:51 am sunspotpictures: RT @NevadaGrey: Plot points are the smaller increments of structure #scriptchat
12:51 am boycaught: RT @ozzywood: True. Structure we learn from study. Character from life. RT @ruminski: bad writers can follow all of the rules & still be awful #scriptchat
12:52 am GCGeek: @yeah_write And the ticket buyer complains when it's a confusing or horribly predictable "plot". #scriptchat
12:52 am authorViviAnna: can anyone think of a movie that had a good story but a bad plot? #scriptchat
12:52 am jeannevb: while ur all here, NEXT WEEK we're having @b0bg00dman writer & story editor of WAREHOUSE 13 on US #scriptchat! http://bit.ly/bjEfb7
12:52 am PennyAsh: @yeah_write Exactly, the audience wants to suspend reality for a couple hours #scriptchat
12:52 am thescriptlab: @yeah_write the viewer might not think they want a plot, but in reality it's what keeps them in their seats. #scriptchat
12:52 am ozzywood: But smaller ... pay checks. Unless they write formulaic (HP) RT @thescriptlab: RT true... novelists have so much more freedom. #scriptchat
12:52 am RickRapier: Does it help to think that U can have a story w/o a plot? Anyone, Bueller? #scriptchat
12:52 am yeah_write: @GCGeek But that's what I mean, the plot helps tell the story. #scriptchat
12:52 am crintzs: @jeannevb thank you. tweeting from brazil (followed @Crintzs to get here) -- Welcome dear friend!!! #scriptchat
12:52 am ozzywood: UP IN THE AIR RT @authorViviAnna: can anyone think of a movie that had a good story but a bad plot? #scriptchat
12:52 am NevadaGrey: 100 writers could be given the same scenario 2 start w/ but thru plot, structure, character & theme we get 100 different stories #scriptchat
12:53 am marisabirns: RT @RickRapier What the hell is Fail Code 403??? #scriptchat | It means Nope, do not pass.
12:53 am ozzywood: Example? ONE? RT @RickRapier: Does it help to think that U can have a story w/o a plot? Anyone, Bueller? #scriptchat
12:53 am booksbelow: Sometimes story is about the plot, ie. 'The Sting' #scriptchat
12:53 am sunspotpictures: What constitutes a bad plot? RT @authorViviAnna: can anyone think of a movie that had a good story but a bad plot? #scriptchat
12:53 am jeannevb: Also, if u want to REALLY challenge ur story/plot apply to Southampton Screenwriting Wkshp w me! http://bit.ly/cYfZqH #scriptchat
12:54 am jeannevb: @Crintzs @thiagodottori *smooches* for the new chatter ;) #scriptchat
12:54 am ruminski: One of my all-time faves: HURLYBURLY @authorViviAnna can anyone think of a movie that had a good story but a bad plot? #scriptchat
12:54 am yeah_write: Loved that movie. RT @booksbelow: Sometimes story is about the plot, ie. The Sting #scriptchat
12:54 am RickRapier: @sunspotpictures ALL ABOUT STEVE. #scriptchat
12:54 am scriptdreric: @RickRapier It seemed to work for LOST IN TRANSLATION. :) #scriptchat
12:54 am ozzywood: Now define SCENARIO! ;) RT @NevadaGrey: 100 writers cld be given same scenario 2 start w/ but [...] we get 100 different stories #scriptchat
12:54 am jbonnell: @RickRapier Didnt you just answer that? "Sincerely yours, the Breakfast Club" #scriptchat
12:54 am crintzs: I would not call it "a bad plot" - I'd say "a simple plot". Again: what matters is how the characters reacts to it. #scriptchat
12:54 am PennyAsh: @jeannevb If I had the money I'd be there :) #scriptchat
12:55 am yeah_write: RT @jeannevb: NEXT WEEK were having @b0bg00dman writer & story editor of WAREHOUSE 13 on US #scriptchat! http://bit.ly/bjEfb7 #scriptchat
12:55 am ozzywood: That's not a movie. That's THEATRE!! RT @ruminski: One of my all-time faves: HURLYBURLY #scriptchat
12:55 am m_moretti: Novel can have more info than movie. And movie dependent on screenplay and director, actors, etc. These can add or subtract #scriptchat
12:55 am jeannevb: RT @NevadaGrey: 100 writers cld be given same scenario 2 start w but thru plot, structure, char & theme we get 100 difft stories #scriptchat
12:55 am thescriptlab: The story combines the chars obstacles with a prevailing theme. The plot is the map that guides them to their resolution. #scriptchat
12:55 am jeannevb: @PennyAsh u can apply for a scholarship ;) #scriptchat
12:55 am ScriptScribbler: @yeah_write Oh! Iove that show! #scriptchat
12:55 am ozzywood: @ruminski Still great fun, indeed. For a small incrowd (us & our peers). #scriptchat
12:56 am NevadaGrey: @ozzywood lol!! =) #scriptchat
12:56 am RickRapier: Another good example. And BROKEN FLOWERS. RT @scriptdreric: @RickRapier It seemed to work for LOST IN TRANSLATION. :) #scriptchat
12:56 am jeannevb: RT @thescriptlab: story combines chars obstacles w a prevailing theme. The plot is the map that guides them to their resolution. #scriptchat
12:56 am sunspotpictures: RT @NevadaGrey: 100 writers could be given same scenario but thru plot, structure, character & theme we get 100 diff stories #scriptchat
12:56 am zacsanford: Sorry to be missing #scriptchat, but a BBQ is going on before the #Lost finale.
12:56 am NugzyBogues: RT @thescriptlab: The story combines the chars obstacles with a prevailing theme. The plot is the map that guides them to their resolution. #scriptchat
12:56 am ruminski: @ozzywood HURLYBURLY was originally theatre, but I'd contend that the screen adaptation stands on its own. #scriptchat
12:56 am yeah_write: I'm taking a writing sabatical starting in June. I need to get my real life back in order. #scriptchat
12:56 am PennyAsh: @jeannevb Hmmm I could do that :) #scriptchat
12:57 am jbonnell: That's why I sign off in 4 minutes! RT @zacsanford: Sorry to be missing #scriptchat, but a BBQ is going on before the #Lost fin. #scriptchat
12:57 am jeannevb: missing u First Dude ;) RT @zacsanford: Sorry to be missing #scriptchat, but a BBQ is going on before the #Lost finale. #scriptchat
12:57 am ozzywood: RT @jeannevb: RT @thescriptlab: story combines chars obstacles w prevailing theme. Plot is map that guides them to resolution. #scriptchat
12:57 am authorViviAnna: @ruminski hmm, haven't seen it...now very curious #scriptchat
12:57 am jeannevb: @PennyAsh download the application & the scholarship info is in it :) #scriptchat
12:57 am GCGeek: @yeah_write I hope you still join us here each week! #scriptchat
12:57 am cinematicshot: #scriptchat Wicker Man remake. No wait that was just bad all around.
12:57 am sunspotpictures: lol -- I mean what makes a bad plot? RT @RickRapier: @sunspotpictures ALL ABOUT STEVE. #scriptchat
12:57 am ruminski: @ozzywood @authorViviAnna but I'll give you another example of great story/bad plot: PI #scriptchat
12:58 am xxkeelimexx: RT @ozzywood: RT @jeannevb: RT @thescriptlab: story combines chars obstacles w prevailing theme. Plot is map that guides them to resolution. #scriptchat
12:58 am jeannevb: fyi @ozzywood, I'm really glad ur here #justsayin.... and glad u met @NevadaGrey ;) She was an AWESOME guest ;) #scriptchat
12:58 am ozzywood: Lack of anticipation. RT @sunspotpictures: lol -- I mean what makes a bad plot? #scriptchat
12:58 am GCGeek: @jeannevb Reminder please. When do we discuss Chinatown? #scriptchat
12:58 am yeah_write: I'd never miss the chat. RT @GCGeek: @yeah_write I hope you still join us here each week! #scriptchat
12:58 am ozzywood: Great example. RT @ruminski: @ozzywood @authorViviAnna but Ill give you another example of great story/bad plot: PI #scriptchat
12:58 am yeah_write: 1st Sunday in June.RT @GCGeek: @jeannevb Reminder please. When do we discuss Chinatown? #scriptchat
12:58 am jeannevb: are there any new screenwriters out there who still are unsure of the diff'c & need more guidance? If so look at links on blog #scriptchat
12:58 am ozzywood: Also: The Invention of Lying. RT @ruminski: @ozzywood @authorViviAnna another example of great story/bad plot #scriptchat
12:59 am RickRapier: ALL ABOUT STEVE RT @sunspotpictures: lol -- I mean what makes a bad plot? RT @RickRapier: @sunspotpictures ALL ABOUT STEVE. #scriptchat
12:59 am crintzs: RT @GCGeek: @jeannevb Reminder please. When do we discuss Chinatown? -- Please, don't. And NO CASABLANCA too. Thanks. #scriptchat
12:59 am cinematicshot: #scriptchat Bad plot is most of M. Night's twist endings.
12:59 am GCGeek: @yeah_write Good news! And thank you. :-) #scriptchat
12:59 am PennyAsh: @jeannevb Checking it out now #scriptchat
12:59 am ozzywood: @jeannevb Always a pleasure! (and a bit of an indulgence for me...) #scriptchat
12:59 am jbonnell: @RickRapier Luckily, my "Evil Dead Breakfast Club" script has both story and plot... ;) #scriptchat
12:59 am jeannevb: CHINATOWN Script Night discussion on June 6th... download script here: http://bit.ly/dyPlvs #scriptchat
1:00 am yeah_write: Agreed. RT @cinematicshot: #scriptchat Bad plot is most of M. Nights twist endings. #scriptchat
1:00 am kimnunley: I'm a slacker tonight... just showed up to #scriptchat at 6. Dang it!
1:00 am sunspotpictures: I think plausibility is also a big factor #scriptchat (What makes a bad plot?)
1:00 am ThiagoDottori: @cinematicshot #scriptchat to me, M. Night's are a good example of good plot and bad story.
1:00 am jeannevb: those are the pleasures that make better stories ;) RT @ozzywood: @jeannevb Always a pleasure! (& bit of indulgence for me...) #scriptchat
1:00 am ruminski: What Karel said & also - lack of immediacy/believability - aud needs to buy/relate to it @sunspotpictures what makes a bad plot? #scriptchat
1:01 am yeah_write: Love having you here. RT @ozzywood: @jeannevb Always a pleasure! (and a bit of an indulgence for me...) #scriptchat
1:01 am sdarancette: I guess plotting is like mapping it all out and the story is the journey to the end of the "map" LOTR has good plot and story #scriptchat
1:01 am PennyAsh: Agree double RT @yeah_write: Agreed. RT @cinematicshot: #scriptchat Bad plot is most of M. Nights twist endings. #scriptchat
1:01 am booksbelow: Excited to see August script is 'Groundhog Day' #scriptchat
1:01 am ozzywood: Thank you all! Fabulous chat. Adrenaline flowing generously again! Excellent start of the week. Bye from Sydney, AU! #scriptchat
1:01 am authorViviAnna: @cinematicshot I agree especially The Village, loved the story until the plot F*&^ in the end #scriptchat
1:01 am jeannevb: @ozzywood bye... thanks again! #scriptchat
1:01 am RickRapier: I'd say some, not most. But c'est la guerre. Good stories tho. RT @cinematicshot: #scriptchat Bad plot is most of M. Night's twist endings.
1:01 am Hadassah_Fey: RT @jeannevb: Also, if u want to REALLY challenge ur story/plot apply to Southampton Screenwriting Wkshp w me! http://bit.ly/cYfZqH #scriptchat
1:02 am yeah_write: The Tweetdeck just shut me down. #scriptchat
1:02 am Hadassah_Fey: RT @jeannevb: while ur all here, NEXT WEEK we're having @b0bg00dman writer & story editor of WAREHOUSE 13 on US #scriptchat! http://bit.ly/bjEfb7
1:02 am crintzs: @ozzywood Great chatting with ya. Bye from Brazil. #scriptchat
1:02 am jeannevb: It's the bewitching hour where I take off the cuffs & let u run wild... tho I suspect some will run off to LOST #scriptchat
1:02 am ruminski: Also: all of Leone's Dollars Trilogy RT @ruminski: @ozzywood @authorViviAnna another example of great story/bad plot #scriptchat
1:02 am sunspotpictures: That's where a good story can outshine bad plot. In spite of no significant risk (anticipation), and little plausibility #scriptchat
1:02 am RickRapier: Thanks again to all behind #scriptchat, and those in front too. ;^)
1:02 am jeannevb: @Hadassah_Fey nice to see you here! ;) #scriptchat
1:02 am yeah_write: End sucked! RT @authorViviAnna: @cinematicshot I agree especially The Village, loved the story until the plot F*&^ in the end #scriptchat
1:02 am jbonnell: @RickRapier... I thought you looked familiar in your thumbnail photos. #scriptchat
1:02 am GCGeek: Once again, learning a lot! Cannot wait for WAREHOUSE 13 chat. G'night. Must sign off of twitter to avoid LOST spoilers. #scriptchat
1:03 am sunspotpictures: It's possible if the characters are extremely interesting... but unlikely #scriptchat
1:03 am Timsn: Need to go. Thanks for the always interesting #scriptchat
1:03 am 4D4Films: @jeannevb Anytime! #Scriptchat rules!
1:04 am yeah_write: Thanks to everyone for showing up on the day of #Lost last episode. lol #scriptchat
1:04 am NevadaGrey: Thank you everyone - what a great chat. Most especially, thank you @jeannevb and the awesome #scriptchat team!! 'Night! ox #scriptchat
1:04 am PennyAsh: @jeannevb Meh, looks like I missed the deadlines :( #scriptchat
1:04 am jbonnell: Time to head to the beginning of the Lost event night. Will ANYONE be watching another network besides ABC? #scriptchat
1:04 am authorViviAnna: thanks for the good chat #scriptchat need to go write, have a book deadline
1:04 am jeannevb: #worlddomination is our overall plan ;) mwhahaha RT @4D4Films: @jeannevb Anytime! #Scriptchat rules!
1:05 am jeannevb: Thanks everyone for joining in the fun! Don't forget WAREHOUSE 13 story editor next SUNDAY @b0bg00dman #scriptchat
1:05 am sunspotpictures: Example of vain attempt to outshine plot with story?... In my opinion "Kicking and Screaming" (the Noah Baumbach film) #scriptchat
1:05 am jeannevb: me ;) RT @jbonnell: Time to head to the beginning of the Lost event night. Will ANYONE be watching another network besides ABC? #scriptchat
1:05 am authorViviAnna: @jbonnell yeah me, I haven't watched on epi of Lost #scriptchat
1:05 am sunspotpictures: RT @ruminski: What Karel said & also - lack of immediacy/believability - aud needs to buy/relate to it (what makes a bad plot?) #scriptchat
1:05 am marisabirns: @yeah_write I only have one minute then to watch all the episodes of Lost since I never have. #scriptchat
1:06 am ozzywood: Totally agreed. Need more than 140 chars! RT @RickRapier: @ozzywood Biggest difference, perhaps, but they differ on many fronts. #scriptchat
1:06 am yeah_write: lol @marisabirns: @yeah_write I only have one minute then to watch all the episodes of Lost since I never have. #scriptchat
1:06 am jeannevb: @ozzywood u just cant leave, can u? ;) We're like a drug, baby #scriptchat
1:07 am jeannevb: neither have I ;) RT @marisabirns: @yeah_write I only have one minute then to watch all the episodes of Lost since I never have. #scriptchat
1:07 am crintzs: RT @Quotes4Writers: "Stop thinking of writing as art. Think of it as work." Paddy Chayefsky #scriptchat
1:07 am jeannevb: if anyone has anything brilliant to say, speak now or forever hold ur peace.... transcript being pulled in 5, 4, 3, 2, .... #scriptchat
1:07 am sdarancette: What's this so-called #lost show that everyone is talking about? Some sort of reality program? #scriptchat
1:07 am sunspotpictures: RT @ozzywood: Lack of anticipation. RT @sunspotpictures: lol -- I mean what makes a bad plot? #scriptchat
1:08 am RickRapier: @jeannevb What the heck is LOST!? *I jest.* #scriptchat
1:08 am talented_boy: since it's free for all time, i have a question: when do you just say enough is enough when it comes to rewriting? #scriptchat
1:08 am crintzs: @sdarancette where do I find the transcript? #scriptchat
1:08 am marisabirns: @jeannevb I was told by family members NOT to call them during Lost. Even if I'm hanging from a cliff. #scriptchat
1:08 am RickRapier: I jest, but I also have never seen an episode. #scriptchat
1:08 am RickRapier: Story is what I say it is. So, mleh. How's that for wisdom? @jeannvb #scriptchat
1:09 am ruminski: @jeannevb Great film, great plot, dodgy story: 13 TZAMETI #scriptchat
1:09 am crintzs: RT @RickRapier: @jeannevb What the heck is LOST!? --- Bro, you're soooo lost right now! #scriptchat
1:09 am sdarancette: RT @crintzs: @sdarancette where do I find the transcript? #scriptchat
1:09 am WriterChanelle: @RickRapier You're not alone. I've seen maybe 5 minutes of LOST #scriptchat
1:10 am jeannevb: www.scriptchat.com ... in about 5 min RT @sdarancette: RT @crintzs: @sdarancette where do I find the transcript? #scriptchat
1:10 am Aniekan007: Name some films with good plots but bad stories. #scriptchat
1:10 am sdarancette: @Crintzs Try her for the transcript @jeannevb :) #scriptchat
1:10 am yeah_write: www.scriptchat.com RT @sdarancette: RT @crintzs: @sdarancette where do I find the transcript? #scriptchat
1:10 am crintzs: I don't get all this fuss - What's new about being LOST?? #scriptchat
1:10 am jeannevb: perfect ;) RT @ruminski: @jeannevb Great film, great plot, dodgy story: 13 TZAMETI #scriptchat
1:10 am crintzs: @jeannevb thanks! #scriptchat
1:11 am talented_boy: a show like 'lost; doesn't tickle my fancy...it's like survivor but scripted...not.for.me. #scriptchat
1:11 am sunspotpictures: @talented_boy When you've some people you trust read it & taken their comments into consideration, & while it still feels alive #scriptchat
1:11 am RickRapier: Nitol. #scriptchat
1:11 am jeannevb: If i didnt have to get up in 7 hrs to catch train to NYC, I'd have a "never-seen-LOST party" with #scriptchat
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